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To: FormerLurker
The truth is we cannot trust the government no matter the party in power. The founders knew that more than two hundred years ago. They sought to limit government. That effort failed in 1865. The federal government has been a rapidly growing monster since that year.

As Gerald Ford said (paraphrase), "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got."

39 posted on 11/09/2002 1:43:52 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
As Gerald Ford said (paraphrase), "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got."

HE said that? I knew there was a reason that I voted for him.. :)

40 posted on 11/09/2002 1:54:02 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
The truth is we cannot trust the government no matter the party in power.

Ford's quote is good, but I like Albert Nock even better:

You get the same order of criminality from any State to which you give power to exercise it; and whatever power you give the State to do things FOR you carries with it the equivalent power to do things TO you.

45 posted on 11/09/2002 3:17:30 PM PST by SR71A
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
You're absolutely right: the Constitution of the United States sets up a limited government. The thing is, there is no such thing as "limited" government. Government is that entity which has the monopoly of force in a given society. By definition, government is that power which, by virtue of its ability to defeat any other power or combination of powers extant in that society, can compel obedience through the use of force. That's what government is -- and I mean all government: representative republic, oligarchy, aristocracy, tribal hieracrchy, theocracy, military dictatorship, Athenian democracy -- the key is different in each case but the song remains the same.

Obedience to the rule of law lasts precisely as long as honor is the main motivator of the ruling class in a given society; once the definition becomes "whatever I can get away with", the constitution is dead, and Might Makes Right again. World War II is a perfect example: it was unconstitutional to declare martial law in Hawaii, it was unconstitutional to strongarm publishers into withholding sensitive information, it was unconstitutional to imprison the Nisei of California -- but the government did it anyway. Were they wrong to do those things? No, not in my opinion, but the point is that at the end of the day the government -- any government -- can do whatever it wants.

In simple terms: the group that has the most guns wins. There is, therefore, no such thing as a "free" country. There are only free men. And what is a free man? A free man is a man who submits himself to the Natural Law. Government and constitutions cannot create freedom; God creates freedom when men live under His law. "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIberty."

Of course, no man lives by the Law; we all do things that are objectively evil. Theerfore, God institutes governments among men to establish justice, protect the citizens from aggression, and enforce contracts. Those functions can be carried out by any government so long as the people running that government are moral men. When the moral fabric of a culture decays, the patchwork of the State disintegrates -- and we find ourselves once again naked and defenseless before the wolves.

I reeat: There are no free countries; there are only free men.. Men are the most free when they are servants of God; the level of repression in a given society is inversely proportional to the morality of its members. People get the government they deserve -- so why are we all so surprised by all this? We chose not to be ruled by God; now we will be ruled by men.

This database thing doesn't bother me one whit. The government can already track us like cattle in a pasture; this only makes the process more efficient. Unless and until Caesar demands that I render unto him what rightfully belongs only to God, I'm not concerned about him.

Maybe he'll do his job for once and keep the Saracen from blowing up my family with an atom bomb.

143 posted on 11/14/2002 5:50:55 PM PST by B-Chan
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