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The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.
1 posted on 11/09/2002 9:31:25 AM PST by rs79bm
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To: rs79bm
BTW, I find it a bit of a stretch to include this in the "election 2002" section of the NYT.
2 posted on 11/09/2002 9:32:39 AM PST by rs79bm
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To: rs79bm
The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.

True, but it's also true for any attribute of government. We don't really need any restrictions on government power because the government is inherently virtuous and impossible to corrupt.

3 posted on 11/09/2002 9:36:55 AM PST by Grut
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To: rs79bm
I wouldn't be particularly thrilled to be a citizen of such a country.
4 posted on 11/09/2002 9:37:44 AM PST by The Duke
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To: rs79bm
This is pure crap. They don't utilize the information they currently have to enforce immigration laws, yet they want more leeway to spy into the personal lives of US CITIZENS?

On a thread this past week relating to immigration issues, I had provided a link to a copy of the Department of Labor's LCA (Labor Condition Application) database. It holds all of the applications for alien work visas dating back to 1991.

I'll provide a link to it again for the purposes of this discussion;

Labor Condition Application Database

During the discussion on the thread in question, a poster had attempted to claim that he had found invalid data. He had noticed that there was a company that had 104 records with 30 workers on each. This resulted in a total of 3120 H1-B visas. The assertion was that this could not be possible and indicated faulty data, but upon much analysis and debate, it became apparent that not only was this possible, but that it was highly likely that it was in fact correct.

It became apparent that MANY foreign owned companies had filed multiple applications for visas using the same job title and start date. This was not what we saw in relation to US OWNED companies, but chiefly from FOREIGN owned companies. Now, to get back to the FIRST company we looked at.

The company describes themselves as having a software development center in India and in Austin, TX, with sales offices scattered throughout the United States. They mention that they have 300+ engineers between India and Austin, yet they applied for 3120 visas for "Programmer/Analysts" for ALL of their locations in the US, even though offices other than Austin were supposedly "sales" offices.

A link to that info is provided below..

Take A Stand: Vote against H1B, Boycott H1B Companies

It was later shown that there was ANOTHER Indian company with an even shadier pattern, and that although they were listed as a gift and advertising company, they were bringing people into the US as "Programmer/Analysts".

One would have to wonder what those "extra" visas might be utilized for. It might not be too hard for a terrorist to purchase a work visa on the blackmarket in order to enter the United States unnoticed and unchallenged. It boggles the mind as to the number of them that might already be here...

A GAO investigation has uncovered MASSIVE fraud in the immigration system, and has reported that it is RAMPANT and "out of control". Yet NO enforcement action apparently has been taken.

From Immigration fraud 'out of control' - General Accounting Office slams INS for rampant problems

"The General Accounting Office has concluded that immigration fraud is rampant, even helping to open the door for terrorism, and that the Immigration and Naturalization Service has no idea how to get it under control."

In the Goverment Executive Magazine article, INS, GAO say immigration benefit fraud is pervasive , it is said that;

"The agency does not know the extent of the fraud, and has failed to provide its field offices with guidance in two key areas: how to conduct investigations of fraud and how to use technology to manage and share information about ongoing cases, the January report said. The INS, which has four service centers and 33 district offices that process applications and petitions for benefits, also hasn’t developed performance measures to use in offices responsible for investigating fraud, GAO said."

Now if WE can find a few questionable cases simply by looking at the LCA data and analyzing what we see here on Free Republic, I can't see why those whose job it is to look into these matters can't do a bit better.

I'd certainly say that there is NO reason WHATSOVER for the government to get expanded powers with the stated result of prying deeper into our personal lives if they can't manage and utilize the tools that they already have.

5 posted on 11/09/2002 9:38:47 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: rs79bm
The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.

Yup. With Hillary pulling the levers we'd have nothing to worry about.

6 posted on 11/09/2002 9:39:32 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: rs79bm
Before taking the position at the Pentagon, Admiral Poindexter, who was convicted in 1990 for his role in the Iran-contra affair, had worked as a contractor on one of the projects he now controls. Admiral Poindexter's conviction was reversed in 1991 by a federal appeals court because he had been granted immunity for his testimony before Congress about the case.

Ah, THAT Admiral Poindexter. I wonder how things are in Mena these days?

7 posted on 11/09/2002 9:40:43 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: rs79bm
Are you sure you're at the right discussion board? Wouldn't you fit in better at Stalinism.com?
11 posted on 11/09/2002 10:04:55 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: rs79bm
The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.

The only people that make me nervous are panty-waist cowards willing to give the government unlimited power so they can can feel safe.

Actually, this sort of initiative might be a good thing in the long run. Eventually it will be abused and people will fear it. People hate that which they fear. The monster we're creating for ourselves in the name of 3,000 dead New Yorkers (one of whom was a personal friend) should be hated and feared.

Right now it's being embraced by power/freedom grabbing bureaucrats encouraged by a spoiled, easily frightened populace.

12 posted on 11/09/2002 10:08:12 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: rs79bm
"The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists."

Yes. They're only going to use it to arrest murderous terrorists. We can trust them. If we say otherwise, we're helping the murderous terrorsts. No complaints here. Nosiree-bob. I'd be much to afraid to compain.
13 posted on 11/09/2002 10:08:15 AM PST by Anchoragite
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To: rs79bm
A local, liberal, political club had a speaker who warned of this system and scared the the heck out of the sheeple. The speaker also warned that the Feds were spying on library cards and had service techs who enter your house, look for guns or any other signs of illegal activity (drugs).

Of course the speaker warned that this was all a result of Bush's homeland security.
15 posted on 11/09/2002 10:10:35 AM PST by Eva
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To: rs79bm
"The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists." What a crock of crap! If you had any incling of history and why these seperations and protections were put into place in the first place then you would know that your statement is garbage. I guess you know more than the founders and those who set up the system. You have no respect for your freedom or your liberty and you will loose it.
"In order to deploy such a system, known as Total Information Awareness, new legislation would be needed, some of which has been proposed by the Bush administration in the Homeland Security Act that is now before Congress. That legislation would amend the Privacy Act of 1974, which was intended to limit what government agencies could do with private information."

Those that give up liberty for percieved security deserve neither liberty or secutity. I see a dictatorship comming.

16 posted on 11/09/2002 10:12:27 AM PST by Revel
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To: rs79bm
NYT, says it all. Anything anti-American they can make up, they will.
19 posted on 11/09/2002 10:29:37 AM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: rs79bm
"The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists."

Some day soon, all you folks who believe this crap,...like this poor soul, are gonna' wake up and smell the coffee, and by then, it will be too late.

This is not a war on terror. That's just the distraction. This is really a war on the American People. There's no other way to look at the rediculous combination of the concepts of "homeland security" and "open borders". The two don't mix. But they're not supposed to. ...Yes, let's all remember. WE'RE THE ENEMY IN THE EYES OF UNCLE SAMMY-RAY.

25 posted on 11/09/2002 11:22:29 AM PST by Ranger Drew
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To: rs79bm
" An F.B.I. official, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified, said the bureau had had preliminary discussions with the Pentagon about the project but that no final decision had been made about what information the F.B.I. might add to the system. "

I would be shocked if "preliminary discussions" were not held. But this is just the Democrat's tying to turn the public against us. The motives of this publication needs to be publicly attacked and fast or they may succeed.

28 posted on 11/09/2002 11:59:33 AM PST by elfman2
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To: rs79bm
The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.

Actually, it should make everyone nervous since the more information the government gets the less time it seems to spend actually looking for real criminals.

In the D.C. area, federal government agents harassed people who bought .223 rifles in that area who also happened to own white vans. This, despite the fact that not only had the perps not bought a rifle in that area, and not only were they not driving a white van, but there were other obvious leads (such as a blue Caprice whose plate was recorded at 10 of the post-shooting roadblocks) the police were ignoring.

Perhaps if there was some evidence that new intelligence-gathering abilities would actually be used to solve crimes, there might be at least some merit to supporting them. As it is, though, it seems the government so mis-uses its intelligence-gathering facilities that adding more would likely just further impede effective law enforcement.

29 posted on 11/09/2002 12:01:44 PM PST by supercat
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To: rs79bm
The only people this should make nervous are the murderous terrorists.

The same was said about the RICO - that only the members of Mafia should be nervous. And now it is being applied against pro-life activists and many others. The only thing common between a nun praying before the abortion clinic and John Giotti might be Roman Catholic background, but RICO is being applied to non-Catholics as well.

30 posted on 11/09/2002 12:06:14 PM PST by A. Pole
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To: rs79bm
For now. Wait until the next Clinton gets in office. Then what will you say?
31 posted on 11/09/2002 12:26:46 PM PST by Hostage
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To: rs79bm
Yeah, that's what German Jews said when guns were confiscated.
34 posted on 11/09/2002 1:09:12 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: rs79bm
As the director of the effort, Vice Adm. John M. Poindexter, has described the system in Pentagon documents and in speeches, it will provide intelligence analysts and law enforcement officials with instant access to information from Internet mail and calling records to credit card and banking transactions and travel documents, without a search warrant.

OOPS! WRONG ! ! Sorry there Mr. Vice Admiral J. M. Pointiehead.... But iffin ya try that you may as well be slipping into one of those "snappy looking red coats."
36 posted on 11/09/2002 1:22:26 PM PST by TLI
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To: rs79bm
Will they wipe everyones butts to...sheeeeesh all of this technology and they can't find terrorist cells on our land?
43 posted on 11/09/2002 2:40:51 PM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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