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OH MY WORD! YOU ARE CLUELESS!

Why so nasty? Do I threaten your desires?

1) under the nrst your co will no longer pay any income tax! "You wouldn't be affected" huh?

So what, my 30 years of experience of payroll system says that companies spend a tiny amount collecting and sending taxes to the fed. I've already detailed the process. As far as income tax, the tax relief from fed and FICA won't near cover the 30% reaise in prices of everything new I buy.

Have you seen how companies duck most of their income taxes by adjusting their taxable gross by a slew of expenses and deduction, many at 100% of expense spent?

You don't have very much experience with the inner working of companies, large and small, do you? I have. I spend many years as a consultant.

2) under the nrst your co will no longer have to collect any payroll taxes from wage earners' paychecks!"You wouldn't be affected" huh?

Only a slight amount is spent by any company collecting and paying payroll taxes. I detailed that process already.

3) under the nrst, your co will no longer have to pay matching FICA to the feds! "You wouldn't be affected" huh?

Well now, you're right on matching FICA, but I don't pay it. Any that work for me are legitimate contract sew machine owners, so I didn't have the reference. But this and state unemployment do not add anywhere near 20%-30% to the thousands of individual items producted by a production company in a year.

4) under the nrst, your co will no have no need to have a budget item for tax compliance! "You wouldn't be affected" huh?

I don't have one now. Most businesses I did payrolls for didn't either. They just had a bank account to hold the extracted taxes.

5) under an nrst, your co will not have to collect or remit ANY tax (you've claimed you sell to retailers, not to the final consumer)...so there is no tax at all related to anything your company does!!! "You wouldn't be affected" huh?

I don't now. I use legitimate contractors. That's right there's no tax to speak of to be relieved of, so I would have to raise prices so that I would make enough money to buy the things I'm used to buying at a 30%+ increase in everything. Yes, in that way, I'm affected.

6)under an nrst, all of your employees would receive 100% of their check free of any federal deductions. The only deductions from anyone's check would be those the employees chooses to have deducted (retirement, medical, etc). NO TAX WHATSOEVER will come out of ANY employee's check! "You wouldn't be affected" huh?

See answers above.

I don't doubt that taxes that companies actually pay are passed on to the consumer. But my experience as a consultant argues against it being a significant amount.

I have had one on one experience with small and large business in exectly this area for more than two decades. I don't organize blanket theories that spin on projections based on statistical analyses, I have been right there when the events occured and helped with problems.

And I'm telling you that the notion that prices will fall after business deduct tax expenditures is false. Most of the data you link to comes from companies that produce hundreds of thousands of comsumer items a year, which is why they give price breaks on high orders. The costs spread over all these items are minimal. Your economists have their heads up their asses.

But all that discussion totally revolves around theoretically relieving the perception of of a 30%+ increase of consumer goods and services. There is no evidence that companies will take that amount out of their prices.

Competition is valid only if companies in an industry don't collude to keep the price at a certain level, which they do now.

Tell me, why don't you want to eliminate the income tax, and replace it with nothing? In 1985, the amount collected of income tax and FICA almost exactly matched the expenditures of socialist programs and welfare distributions. So it's not like we would defund true constitutional government.

Now, what the NRST will do is put off the crisis in social security. Is that what you're worried aobut?

Don't you want to remove socialism from America? If so, why do you advocate funding it?

Now, what the NRST will do is put off the crisis in social security. Is that what you're worried aobut?

Not at all, infact the NRST will allow folks to decide whether or not to participate in SS for themselves. The more folks leave that system the lower the NRST rate will go, automatically.

You don't want Social Security benefits calculated for your earned income and force a tax rate decrease? Don't tell Social Security what what your earned income for the year is.

`(d) OLD-AGE, SURVIVORS AND DISABILITY INSURANCE RATE- The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 12.4 percent tax on the Social Security wage base ... The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology

`(e) HOSPITAL INSURANCE RATE- The hospital insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The hospital insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 2.9 percent tax on the Medicare wage base ... The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology

SEC. 903. WAGES TO BE REPORTED TO SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.

a) IN GENERAL- Employers shall submit such information to the Social Security Administration as is required by the Social Security Administration to calculate social security benefits.

I'm sure the government will be more than happy to not pay you SS benefits. And reduce the tax rate, thank you very much.

It's at least a novel way to end Social Security, go for it:

23%........... HR2525 (NRST) rate

14.91% ..... rate if Social Security and Medicare were privatized
14% .......... rate if Nat'l Endowment for the Arts were eliminated
11.9%........ rate if Dept. of Education were eliminated
10% .......... rate if welfare were eliminated
9.8%.......... rate if foreign aid were eliminated
etc.

Hmmmmmm....... It's do able, with time and effort, once the blinders are removed from the electorate.

Tell me, why don't you want to eliminate the income tax, and replace it with nothing?

Without first removing the programs requiring the tax payment, government would merely be funded by the printing press and the nation would be subject to hyper inflation and no accountability of government, nor accountability of the electorate for their demands for largess.

Besides that was tried before with the Continental Congress under the Articles of Confederation. Didn'd work to neat, ever here the expression "not worth a Continental" that was due to the valueless script being issued as a consequence of that war's debt that could not be honored for lack of authority to collect a tax to pay the debts and general expenses of the new United States of America? We damn'ed near found ourselves right back under England's rule because of it, or worse yet the French owning our hides.

One of the dominant reasons the Constitution was written was to assure the power to lay and collect taxes was available to the Federal government. With the perferred mode through the levy of indirect taxes collect from business or the individual as opposed to Apportionment upon the states

In 1985, the amount collected of income tax and FICA almost exactly matched the expenditures of socialist programs and welfare distributions. So it's not like we would defund true constitutional government.

So work to repeal the excess burden, then the NRST rate would be driven downward towards reasonable limits.

23%........... HR2525 (NRST) rate

14.91% ..... rate if Social Security and Medicare were eliminated
14% .......... rate if Nat'l Endowment for the Arts were eliminated
11.9%........ rate if Dept. of Education were eliminated
10% .......... rate if federal welfare programs were eliminated
9.8%.......... rate if foreign aid were eliminated
etc.

One does not get rid of an itch by scratching it, that only causes more irritation and infection. You get rid of the itch by addressing its cause with medication and hygiene, not its effect by continuing to scratch making the problem worse.

YOU ARE CLUELESS!

Why so nasty?

It's not "nasty" to point out that someone is clueless about the topic they're discussing. "Clueless" is a nice thing to say about someone who says they've read and understood hr2525 but doesn't even know that necessities are untaxed and doesn't even know that business ot business transx are not taxed.

So what, my 30 years of experience of payroll system says that companies spend a tiny amount collecting and sending taxes to the fed.

So your 30 years of experience has not been at the ownership level- or near it. You simply gloss over the fact that fica taxes and an employer's accompanying "contribution" cost a LOT by saying "it doesn't cost that much to collect and send them in". Good grief, did you forget the cost of the tax itself?!

You don't have very much experience with the inner working of companies, large and small, do you?

LOL. Nice try. You "forgot" about the cost of tax itself. Yeah, you're a real experienced, talented consultant. Had trouble finding work lately?

Ohmigosh you forgot income taxes paid by your company. Ohmigosh you forgot that your investors will have a reduced ROI based on the expense of those taxes.

Ohmigosh you don't know what you're doing. I hope whoever you work for gives you CLEAR instructions.

I don't now. I use legitimate contractors. That's right there's no tax to speak of to be relieved of,...

Yes there is tax to be relieved of! Your contractors will not have to pay income, payroll, or any taxes - hence they can lower prices to you. Also, anyone your contractor buys from will be relieved of any and all federal tax obligations also.

...so I would have to raise prices so that I would make enough money to buy the things I'm used to buying at a 30%+ increase in everything.

Again, your fundamental position is wrong. Prices for your business purchases will decrease, not increase.

I don't doubt that taxes that companies actually pay are passed on to the consumer. But my experience as a consultant argues against it being a significant amount.

And I would believe you, an income tax lover, over the vast universe of existing data compiled by verifiable experts why???? Further, you have shown to be quite ignorant on the bill itself, asserting that it is regressive (it's obviously not) and asserting that business purchases are tax (they're not). These two "mistakes" are so fundamental that you either really have no idea about the bill or you're lying. Either way, I don't trust your posts.

Your economists have their heads up their asses.

Perhaps you haven't had the vast experience with smaller businesses? Maybe take a look at a few of the small business organizations that endorse the nrst like say, oh, NATIONAL SMALL BUSINESS UNITED. Or do they not know as much as you... "have their heads up their arses" as you put it?

Tell me, why don't you want to eliminate the income tax, and replace it with nothing?

I never said this wasn't the case. However, try getting a Congressman to submit such a bill.

You claim to be have read and understood the bill. But you don't know it from your arse. You thought the nrst was regressive - it's not... see the info on thread. The poorer you are, the less tax you pay; and folks below the poverty line have negative tax rates. How could you say you've read the bill but not know this Will???

You continue to post that your business purchases will be taxed under the nrst- they won't be. How on earth you could be on these thread for more than 10 minutes and think that is beyond me. I can only deduce that it is purposefully misstating.

You also claim 30 years exp. in consulting in tax related areas. That's funny. You may have been an employee for 30 years, but you don't get the big picture of taxation and business.

Yes, I want to eliminate socialist policies, that's precisely why I advocate the nrst. The fact that this bill would put an immediate stop to socialist polices is exactly the reason liberal dems oppose the nrst so vehemently.