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I've talked to a large range of people and business owners ove the course of three years. No one, without exception, has heard of an NRST. When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified. I iinvite anyone here to try it.

The point is, if the NRST were publicized, and explained in a non-partisan manner (not using attempts to mislead and deceive, like calling it a "Fair Tax") it would be overwhelmingly rejected.

A complete cross section? How many people are registered to post on FR? What fraction is that of the adult population of workers? Double, or even triple it to include lurkers, what fraction of that of the adult population. People who post on FR have to own a computer, be literate in computer use, have the time and education to read, analyze and post. Who's profile is that?

Please point out the except from HR2525, the active bill, where poor people will not have to pay the NRST (except the provision that anyone can fill out an intrusive government forms asking personal information about household and occupants, much like the last census). If it's there it has been a recent change. If no recent change, then who're you trying to fool?

You've been stomping for this bonehead idea for years. How much do you make a year, Principled? If you eleminated your fed and FICA how much would that offset the purchases you normally make during that same period.

If you make high pay, then you're ok; if you make low pay then you're screwed, unless you fill out government forms monthly. Or if you're older and living on your retirement, you're screwed, unless you fill out the same forms as often.

After the NRST has been in effect for a couple years, how many people will end up filling that paperwork? Hummm? And what kind of watchdog organization will have to exeist to enforce honesty in those new returns? Would it be something like an organization that it is claimed to have been eliminated, the acronym for which started with an "I" and ended with an "S"? Hummmm?

So, post the new revision to HR2525. Maybe I'll change my tune.

I've talked to a large range of people and business owners ove the course of three years. No one, without exception, has heard of an NRST.

I find that folks have heard of it and are curious.

When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified.

That is likely due in large part to your ignorane of the bill and your love of the income tax.

I invite anyone here to try talking to others about the nrst.

As do I, but I also encourage anyone here to learn about the subject before making wild assertions.

The point is, if the NRST were publicized, and explained ... it would be overwhelmingly rejected.

So why are you so worried about it then?

A complete cross section?

Yes. A complete cross section. You have presented no data contrary. You don't have to own a computer to be on FR. I don't own this computer.

Please point out the except from HR2525, the active bill, where poor people will not have to pay the NRST.

Man you really know nothing about the bill. I'll let you look it up yourself on the thomas-loc site, or you'll blame me for posting links. All individuals, regardless of income level, will pay no tax on the necessities of life. If you don't believe me you just have to look it up by searhing hr2525 on the thomas-loc site that contains legislation.

No tax on necessities. Each family receives the tax due on necessites in advance each month (prebate). Hence no tax on necessites. The "onerous paperwork" you mention does not exist. "Onerous paperwork" is what the income tax gives us. If you want to get the prebate, you simply provide the number of adults and kids in your household to the SSA so they know how much to send you. Onerous? Sheesh

If you eleminated your fed and FICA how much would that offset the purchases you normally make during that same period.

This doens't make sense.

And you're wrong, you are not required ever to ask for a prebate. You are free to skip it. No problem. The SSA keeps up with SS#s of recipients today, they'll do it under the nrst too. No IRS needed because THERE'S NO DAMN REASON TO TRACK INCOME! Get it through your head!

I've talked to a large range of people and business owners ove the course of three years. No one, without exception, has heard of an NRST.

Uh Mr. Terrell! perhaps you should read more:

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AMERICAN FARM BUREAU FEDERATION
                                  225 Touhy Avenue * Park Ridge * Illinois * 60068 * (847)685-8600 * FAX (847)685-8896
     600 MARYLAND AVENUE, S.W. * SUITE 800 * WASHINGTON, D.C. * 20024 * (202)484-3600 * FAX (202)484-3604
                                                                                                                                                                 Internet: http://www.fb.com

August 31, 2001
The Honorable John Linder
U.S. House of Representatives
1727 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Dear Representative Linder:
American farmers and ranchers support fundamental tax reform. They have become increasingly frustrated with the current tax system and disheartned that attempts to improve it only make it more complex.
Your national sales tax plan, H.R. 2525, the Fair Tax Act of 2001, is supported by Farm Bureau. The plan addresses many problems of the current tax system by eliminating the individual and corporate income taxes, capital gains tax, estate tax and payroll taxes. These changes would have a positive impact on day-to-day farm and ranch management and the transfer of farms and ranches from one generation to the next.
The current tax system forces farmers and ranchers to consider the tax consequences of each input purchase, commodity sale, capital asset purchase or capital asset sale. Tax planning has become a part of everyday decision-making. Farmers and racnhers should be making business decisions based on economics, not on tax consequences.
After a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes, farmers and ranchers face double taxation through capital gains taxes at retirement and estate taxes at death. If they sell land, livestock or other assets at retirement, they find the federal government ready to take a share as capital gains taxes. These taxes often discourage retirees from reallocating assets to a more appropriate mix for their retirement years and younger producers lose the opportunity to purchase the assets that they need to start or expand farm and ranch businesses.
Planning for the transfer of assets at death has become a time consuming and costly activity. Many family farms are multi-generation family farms. Transferring farms and ranches from one generation to the next without huge estate taxes is critical to the financial success of these operations. Some farms are lost when death taxes force farmers and ranchers to sell part or all of their business to secure enough cash to pay death taxes.
These and other problems would be eliminated with passage of H.R. 2525, the Fair Tax Act of 2001. We stand ready to assist you in advancing this legislation.
Sincerely,
Bob Stallman
Bob Stallman
President

I've talked to a large range of people and business owners ove the course of three years. No one, without exception, has heard of an NRST. When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified. I iinvite anyone here to try it.

Perhaps you might find the endorsement of the National Taxpayers Union impressive!

You wrote: You've been stomping for this bonehead idea for years. How much do you make a year, Principled? If you eleminated your fed and FICA how much would that offset the purchases you normally make during that same period.
If you make high pay, then you're ok; if you make low pay then you're screwed, unless you fill out government forms monthly. Or if you're older and living on your retirement, you're screwed, unless you fill out the same forms as often.

After the NRST has been in effect for a couple years, how many people will end up filling that paperwork? Hummm? And what kind of watchdog organization will have to exeist to enforce honesty in those new returns? Would it be something like an organization that it is claimed to have been eliminated, the acronym for which started with an "I" and ended with an "S"? Hummmm?

William, there's an old (but true) saying that came to mind when I read the above garbage/inaccuracies you wrote to Principled... to wit:

"'Tis often better to remain silent and be thought
a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!"

Clearly, you know not whereof you speaketh! There are no monthly forms for individuals to fill-out. Nor, is there any 'watchdog' organization such as the IRS that besieges individual taxpayers.

Have you never read the FairTax plan (HR 2525)?

1. Once a year, you indicate on a form how many are in your household. PERIOD! That's it.

Visit Family Consumption Allowance!

2. No "IRS type" organization will exist that 'audits' or 'besieges' individual taxpayers. Got it? NONE!

You pay the FairTax at the Cash Register in the form of a Sales Tax when you make a Retail Purchase. That's not so difficult to understand, is it?

Here's a couple of websites where you can get up-to-date on the Fair Tax (HR 2525): FairTax Facts! ...and... Americans For Fair Taxation!"

Have a look at my Home Page... Cliff's Page! Say, Bill, I'm way down on the income scale. Trade ya' income, sight-unseen. C'mon, I'd like a raise! :-)

Have a nice day!

Cliff Cofer - State Director, AFFT Iowa Volunteer Team

* * * Bye, bye... Income Tax (and IRS)! We won't miss ya' at all! * * *