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To: palmer

I keep hearing that #1 will be enforced, but not how.

Number 1. Though not all business owners will be honest for there will be a small percentage that don't. Harsh penalties will be a deterrence. Innocent until proven guilty would be the law and rule followed. No more guilty-until-proven-innocent as it is now with the IRS. The many states do a competent, non-intrusive and non-abusive job of ensuring that sales tax is collected fairly. Bring the accuser before the business being accused and the accuser has the burden of proof to prove that the business didn't give the government the sales tax.  Many honest citizens are willing to help a police detective catch a criminal, honest business owners don't like cheaters and would likely be willing to help a government tax detective do his job when the business owner was certain the business was cheating. The honest business owner stands with the government as the accuser thus he too is exposed/transparent and wouldn't wrongfully accuse. Honest business owners don't like dishonest business owners that wrongfully accuse others of cheating on paying the sales tax to gain an unfair/illegal competitive advantage (use the government to attack an honest competitor)... A business would be killing it's own business if it accused an honest business for cheating. It would probably kill its business quicker for bearing false witness against an honest competitor than if it cheated on taxes itself. Nobody likes a cheater but even more reprehensible is a person that knowingly and wrongfully accuses an honest person of cheating.

I believe that it is inevitable that the government will mix in enforcement mechanisms 2 or 3 above, which although still unworkable, will end purchase privacy.

That defeats the purpose of replacing an already abusive intrusive IRS. Besides, it doesn't currently happen in any of the states that now have sales tax. You have only your opinion that an additional 23% tax despite a roughly same percentage lower product/service retail price will cause many business owners to become dishonest or create a viable black market and that the government would advocate returning to an abusive and intrusive measure which the people will have already spoken against in the first place by replacing the current tax system with a NRST. The pendulum is swinging in favor of the individual and individual life-and-property rights. The politicians and bureaucrats are being increasingly exposed for the frauds they are.... And that momentum has a snowballing effect. Honesty outlives the lie. It always has and always will.

Replacing the graduated income tax with a NRST is not an end all be all. It's but one of five key factors for collapsing a corrupt government while allowing a fair and honest government to rise in its place.

Replacing the graduated income tax with a NRST would set off a chain reaction of benefits.

  1. Boom the economy because productivity is not taxed; no tax on profits or hidden taxes/fees.
  2. IRS threats and coercion eliminated and replaced with, if you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the item.
  3. 20% decrease in retail prices facilitates spending and partally offsets the retail tax.
  4. People will know how much leviathan government is really costing them, resulting in...
  5. Shrinking government to it's constitutional function to protect synonymous private-property rights and individual rights from domestic and foreign criminals while upholding the sanctity of private contracts.
  6. Freedom in United States leads to other countries doing similar or risk its citizens fleeing to United States to increase productivity here while enjoying the fruits/prosperity of their labor.

The reader can get more information at Americans for Fair Tax on the fairtax.org Web site.

684 posted on 11/07/2002 10:19:21 AM PST by Zon
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To: Zon
...The honest business owner stands with the government as the accuser thus he too is exposed/transparent and wouldn't wrongfully accuse. Honest business owners don't like dishonest business owners that wrongfully accuse others of cheating on paying the sales tax to gain an unfair/illegal competitive advantage (use the government to attack an honest competitor)...

I'm not sure what I can say except invite you to the flea market. You can talk to the merchants and ask them if they are honest and what they would do to enforce honesty. I have never seen anyone record anything except for most merchants who sell mostly new stuff using a cash box. Presumably at the end of eadh day they can count the cash and record the amount. Remember that tax is always included in the price and the price is often negotiated on the spot particularly when I buy in bulk.

I don't know what prevents dishonest merchants from undercounting their cash. Other merchants would have no idea whether another merchant undercounted or not, I doubt that their receipts are made public. I certainly have no incentive to report what I have purchased, but even if I did, the merchant could pay enough sales tax to cover that.

I have no knowledge of how the state currently enforces sales tax. One possibility is to have undercover agents estimating cash receipts and comparing that to records sent by the merchants. A better possibility is that they track inventory either from the distributors or at the market itself. With a high tax, there will be a great incentive to track it from the distributors since they can force them to either remit sales tax or remit records of buyers. Some people on this thread say that's not necessary but I see it as a distinct possibility. And it still doesn't address the people who make what they sell.

691 posted on 11/07/2002 12:27:23 PM PST by palmer
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To: Zon
You wrote: Replacing the graduated income tax with a NRST would set off a chain reaction of benefits.

1.Boom the economy because productivity is not taxed; no tax on profits or hidden taxes/fees.
2.IRS threats and coercion eliminated and replaced with, if you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the item.
3.20% decrease in retail prices facilitates spending and partally offsets the retail tax.
4.People will know how much leviathan government is really costing them, resulting in...
5.Shrinking government to it's constitutional function to protect synonymous private-property rights and individual rights from domestic and foreign criminals while upholding the sanctity of private contracts.
6.Freedom in United States leads to other countries doing similar or risk its citizens fleeing to United States to increase productivity here while enjoying the fruits/prosperity of their labor.
...plus, Cliff adds:
7. Makes U.S. made products more competitive when sold within the USA against foreign imports a-n-d makes U.S. made products more competitive in the World market.
8. Creates jobs in the USA.

The reader can get more information at Americans for Fair Tax on the fairtax.org Web site. Cliff adds ...or, at this website: FAIRTAX FACTS! ...a discussion of the FairTax written in "layman's language."

ZON, great to have you among the fast-growing number of FairTax supporters! I enjoy reading your posts!

Cliff Cofer

P.S. Here's where you can read a copy of my letter to Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, urging him to get-on with tax reform: Cofer to O'Neill!

742 posted on 11/08/2002 4:33:23 PM PST by CliffC
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