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Altman believes that the second half was actually written in the 3rd or 4th century, while Paul Flesher at the University of Wyoming, an expert on Hebraicized Aramaic dialects, dates it anywhere between the 2nd and 7th centuries.

Now wait a second here. Suppose the early Jewish Christians had this box, labelled "James son of Joseph", which they knew contained the bones of the James who the Bible CLEARLY SAYS was the "Brother of Jesus".

The Jews are run out of Israel in 70AD. As the years go by, and the ossuaries begin to pile up, and there are more ossuaries with "Joseph & James" (very common names) the Jews realize that if they are to diferentiate THIS box from the others as belonging to "James the Brother of Jesus" -- they need to FURTHER LABEL it so they can know WHICH "James son of Joseph" is ALSO "James brother of Christ".

So someone adds the additional identifier.

THAT IS YOUR IDEA OF A "HOAX"?????

20 posted on 11/06/2002 12:02:18 PM PST by berned
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To: berned
Moot point, in the end. Bottom line? See post # 21, thanks.
22 posted on 11/06/2002 12:04:04 PM PST by Polycarp
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To: berned
The Jews are run out of Israel in 70AD. As the years go by, and the ossuaries begin to pile up, and there are more ossuaries with "Joseph & James" (very common names) the Jews realize that if they are to diferentiate THIS box from the others as belonging to "James the Brother of Jesus" -- they need to FURTHER LABEL it so they can know WHICH "James son of Joseph" is ALSO "James brother of Christ".

So someone adds the additional identifier.

THAT IS YOUR IDEA OF A "HOAX"?????

Best case scenario for its authenticity. Leaves scores of other questions that aren’t answered by your hypo, but I’ll leave most of them (e.g., why wasn’t this phrase recognized years ago, etc.)

The question I have is this. If you find a couple word description on an ossuary, that couple word description being placed on it by unknown persons, on an unknown date, to be reliable as a source of doctrine, do you also find the writings of the Church fathers in the first couple centuries, writings by men who were known, who were taught by the Apostles themselves, on known dates, said writings known to be authentic, do you also find these writings to be valuable evidence of Christian doctrine and teachings, and valid sources of doctrine?

patent  +AMDG

29 posted on 11/06/2002 12:17:47 PM PST by patent
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To: berned
THAT IS YOUR IDEA OF A "HOAX"?????

At least one expert claimed that, statistically, there were approximately 20 James-Joseph (son-father) combinations in the population at the time. Personally, I can accept the possibility that this is still the ossuary of The James in question, because I think there are a number of arguments that increase the odds above the statistical 5% possibility.

I'm inclined to lean towards a scenario that the box fell into the hands of the Christian community after 70 A.D. because (a) the added inscription is apparently by a non-native speaker (while I would think that the relatives of James would still have their Aramaic language skills), (b) the added inscription would have been important to the Christians (but not necessarily to the relatives), and (c) the Christians had a history of preserving the remains of early church figures (while Israelites on the run could easily have chosen to leave bone boxes behind). Still, one can imagine all sorts of possibilities and ownership changes.

Still, I think comments about this not necessarily being a "fraud" per se are well taken. I don't know the religious beliefs of the "expert" evaluators, but it is possible that those outside of Christianity have an anti-Jesus agenda. Fraud in the "interpretation" of facts might exist, but probably can't be proven.

In the end, actual or not, the authenticity of the box can't be proven one way or the other. So I suspect that everyone will fall back on their existing belief systems.
45 posted on 11/06/2002 1:18:09 PM PST by polemikos
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