Atheist says he's been booted from Boy Scouts

USA TODAY | 11/04/02 | AP

[kattracks]

SEATTLE (AP) — An Eagle Scout who has earned 37 merit badges said Monday he has been kicked out of the Boy Scouts for refusing to declare a belief in a higher power. Darrell Lambert said he was told of the decision earlier in the day by the Chief Seattle Council, the Scouts' regional governing body.

"Am I bitter? No. Disappointed? Yeah," he said. "We're in the 21st century. Our country was founded on religious freedom, and the Boy Scouts of America are still discriminating."

Lambert said he plans to appeal the decision within the Scouting council within the required 60 days.

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize a higher power, although not necessarily a religious one.

As a private organization, the Boy Scouts can bar anyone it chooses from membership. The organization's ban on gay leaders was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2000.

The issue arose about a month ago, after Lambert attended a Boy Scout leadership training seminar where he argued with a Scout leader about whether atheists should be expelled from the organization.

Last week, the council said it would give him about a week to declare his belief in a higher power. Lambert refused, saying that to lie would make him a bad Scout.

The Irving, Texas-based Boy Scouts of America did not return calls seeking comment Monday.

Lambert, 19, said he has been an atheist since ninth grade, when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.

He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award.

"They commended me on my honesty," he said.

His mother told CNN that no one in their family attends church, and that her husband is also an atheist.

"Darrell's not just fighting this for himself. He's fighting this for all the Scouts that have no real belief in God," Trish Lambert said.

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Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[RLK]

I thought the BSA was originally formed as a non-religious group.

---------------------------

Not whn you take an oath of duty to God. The Boy Scouts is non-denominational in that one need not belong to any particular church to belong to it.

[nicmarlo]

Next he'll be complaining that he can't find a Catholic church to go to where athiesm is promoted.

[MedicalMess]

POLICE STATE REQUIRES LOTS OF CAPS & SEMI-LITERATE PUNCTUATION 8')

They can't afford to clean or get new keyboards after coke spilled inside.

We couldn't find our cap-lock keys after the Clinton interns left.

I have bi-polar disorder so I only know how to SHOUT on the keyboard.

[BlueLancer]

8')

[MedicalMess]

If he is 19 years old, he's a "kid" to me and I'm old enough to be his dad and then some.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" he doesnt have to ...if doesnt believe in god the he doesnt it dont mean he should be kicked out of the scouts..i mean what.just cuz he dont believe all of a sudden that makes him a threat? i dont think so "

Uh, I wasn't aware that you owned the BSA!?!
The reality is that they are a private organization. If they wish to bring in Christians only, it is there choice and they can keep whoever they want as a part of their organization. But of course you note the media only focuses on Christian groups. I have yet to hear any of this nonsense about atheistic, Muslim, Jewish or woman's groups or clubs. This is just more "bash the white Christian males" typical liberal bovine scattology.

[TheCPA]

According to the Scout Law, "A Scout is reverent." No atheists should be allowed in the Boy Scouts of America.

[Boot Hill]

MedicalMess says:   "AND NO PERSON ON THIS THREAD OR ANY OTHER SHOULD DARE SUGGEST THAT THIS WAS THE CHRISTIAN THING TO DO."

This was the Christian thing to do.

--Boot Hill

[RLK]

You all are so quick to condemn this kid because he has the guts to say what he believes.

-------------------------

Many people have the guts to say what they believe. Jane Fonda has it. Adolf Hitler had it. The Clintons have it.

It's not just that people have the guts to say what they believe that concerns me. It's WHAT they believe that concerns me.

What this spoiled brat believes, my leftist pal, is that other people do not have the right to form associations on the basis of their own held personal standards when it's to his inconvenience. He believes he has the right to run and impose himself on other people's lives--as apparently do you. You're two of a kind.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" But stepping on ones religious freedom is way out of line."

So as long as private Jewish, Muslim, atheistic, or Pagan groups are allowed to do that, it's ok, but not the predominately white Christian male groups who are somewhat conservative in their activities and political views. You've lost your mind. It's a private organization not a public one. There is no "right" to religious freedom in a private group. You can be an atheist and joing the BSA, just don't profess it to the group. It makes you a liar because you are lying everytime you take the oath, but in today's society that's the accepted norm of liberal behavior. Better go re-read your Constitution. After you finish re-reading your BSA manual.

[GopherIt]

Another thread on this was up last week. I'll leave your searches for you to do, since you're the one who needs facts before you start SHOUTING. Check the source of this story (AP). Do they write stories favorable to the BSA, ever? By the way, his mother was Scoutmaster for the while that he was working on his Eagle, and it is standard to cut slack for "boys" age 10 - 18 on several levels, including religious attitudes. And yes, you can be a Scouter age 18 - 21 ... though units/districts/councils can set guidelines on that; remember that many Summer Camp Counselors (= Adult Leader) are in that age group. It'd be nice to see you defend Scouting instead of being a useful idiot, hotshot.

[nicmarlo]

You know, it all depends on why he joined the Boy Scouts.....was he there to cause the organization to cease talking about God? To cease having belief in God being a focal point or major theme of its activities? To cause turmoil within the organization AND the other boy scouts.

In other words, is his underlying intent to DISRUPT the organization, AND, thereby FORCE GOD OUT of the Boy Scouts? Me thinks that was his plan. And Jesus would not have a "viper" in the midst. Knowing the traitor's heart and motivation, Jesus told Judas to "go."

Therein lies your answer of what Jesus would say and do.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" If Jesus Christ was running the Boy Scouts of America, would he have kicked this kid out?"

There's a reach. If Jesus had time to run the BSA, do you honestly think that anyone could look into his eyes and not give the oath honestly? That has to win the dumbest FR post of the day question award. Is there such a thing?

"And therefore knowing the answer to question 3, you now know what an ANTI-CHRIST thing it was to throw this kid out of the Boy Scouts."

Bunk.

"Further, maybe all of you who agree with this shunning will now realize what hypocrits you are and how ANTI-CHRISTIAN your thinking is. "

Another moronic statement. This is not a "Christian" issue if you bothered to read the posts. It is a Freedom of Association issue. There is no law in our Constitution that mandates that any private organization be required to keep a member who they deem undesirable. Quit reaching.

"AND NO PERSON ON THIS THREAD OR ANY OTHER SHOULD DARE SUGGEST THAT THIS WAS THE CHRISTIAN THING TO DO."

No one has. Everyone is once again reminding you that the Constitution is the primary issue here, not the religious issue. Pay attention before posting. Most of us are conservative or Libertarian in our train of thought. This does not make us 100% Christian although I'm sure the majority of participants of this board are. If you wish to argue this discussion on the merits of Constitutionality, that's fine. But when you bring the "Christian thing" crap into your statements, it makes you look like a DU shill.

[isthisnickcool]

Absurd post. But nice caps.

[airborne]

I thought my mind was made up until I read your post # 36. While I agree that the BSA policy doesn't seem the Christian thing to do, I can't help thinking about this young mans' behaviour. 37 merit badges indicates that he is intelligent enough to realize the consequences of his actions. He earned(?) the "God and Me" award. Having worked with my son on this award in Cub Scouts, I believe he must have either lied or in some manner decieved the adult religous leader that he worked with. I think maybe he should seek out someone he can talk to about his premeditated effort to undermine the standards of the BSA.I'm concerned that he may have deeper issues.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" I guess that means that we should throw out all the Jewish troops. Why not? You threw out an atheist. If that, why not the agnostic? If that, then why not the Jew? If that, why not some other sect of religion? "

It's their right to if they wish to.

" Atheism is just as valid a religion as any Christian or Jewish religion."

Ah yes, the liberal mantra.

" What you people can't stand is someone who doesn't believe like you."

Another falsehood. No one has made any anti-atheist posts. It's all been about the Constitution. Pay attention or go back to DU.

" Well I've got news for you. The great majority of all advancement in human technology is due to the people who did not go along with the group or think like everyone else. "

I was not aware that the BSA went out and recruited it's members at gunpoint.

" This kid has got character and guts which is something I do not believe I could say for the majority of you folks on this thread. "

Stupid comment award #3 on this thread. No one has questioned the kid's guts. No one has doubted his courage. It is an issue of, now this is a big word, so break out your dictionary, "F-R-E-E-D-O-M".

" In fact, looking at your responses, I would say many of you are just plain sick. If you want to know why Republicans can't make further headway over the Demorats... go look in the mirror... the intolerant religious right. You are this parties biggest thorn in the side of bigots and hypocrits."

Moronic statement award #2 on this thread. No one attacked his right to be an atheist. No one is quoting from the Bible. You just feel insecure about your own beliefs because the majority opinion is that a private group does not have to obey what you think is right or wrong. You should have quit them then. No one put a gun to your head to join. No one should have the right to put a gun to the BSA's head to accept undesirable members.

"This is not what you call smart thinking on the part of the Boy Scouts of America!!! "

It's called smart thinking though to defend the BSA's right to do what they wish as a, one more time, private organization. And thank you. I'm cutting a large check to them now becaue you remind me of why these guys need our support.

[Buggman]

Next week's headline:

Atheist says he's been booted from Southern Baptists

Yours in Truth,

[MedicalMess]

Memo

To: Boot Hill
From: MedicalMess

Subject: Presumption of Guilt

I noticed you had some definite opinions about me as an individual for which you have no basis. May I suggest that before you call someone a liar that you should find out more about the particulars of their described situations. The reason why I say this is because you have presumed me guilty of perpetrating a fraud without sufficient evidence.

It is dishonest for you to say that I have obtained a God and Country award under any other circumstances than that prescribed for it's obtainment.

You state, "MedMess chose the dishonorable and deceitful path and he has to live with that.", because I have taken an oath to God and Country. Just because my view of God is not the same as yours does not make me dishonorable and deceitful person.

Further, the Scouts are not suppose to be a pseudo-nazi organization which passes judgement on peoples personal relationship with God. It never has been a big deal in the past. Maybe some people in the organization feel they need to take the organization away from American values toward a more fascist direction.

But your personal attacks on me are unwarranted, without merit and illustrate a certain level of immaturity.

You aren't by chance a Democrat are you? Because you certainly are a first class JACKASS.

[yendu bwam]

Our country was founded on religious freedom, and the Boy Scouts of America are still discriminating."

Exactly, there, kid. Both the Boy Scouts and you are exercising your religious freedom - which means you have the right to discriminate amongst different religious beliefs.

[aardvark1]

thanks for your display of tolerance