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To: End The Hypocrisy
1. In case you are unaware, Congress cannot ban abortion due to Roe v.Wade.

2. If you check the first link you'll note that pro-life groups appear nowhere in the list of top soft money donors and the second link will show that abortion advocacy PACs have vastly outspent pro-life PACs during this election cycle.

Top Soft Money Donors

PAC Contributions

3. If you make up such a substantial majority of the Republican party why can't you elect pro-abortion Republicans outside of left-wing strongholds?

4. If you're hanging your hat on CFR surviving the Supreme Court you had best be working on plan B.

5. Are you going to keep harping on orphanages? I just did a web search and can't find a single link to an active orphange. Are orphans a serious social issue? If so your Democrat buddies are missing a great issue. Right now they're only using the Republicans want to starve old people routine.

242 posted on 11/04/2002 11:25:13 AM PST by garv
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To: garv
In responding to your points, point-by-point:

1) Congress can't amend the Constitution, with help from the states which you claim embrace your cause? Oh?

2) Pro Life groups have their subtle ways of funneling soft money into candidates' coffers. They just got their wrist slapped, though, as the following article suggests:


http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20021003-36760510.htm

October 3, 2002

House defeats effort to allow tax-free politics in churches

ASSOCIATED PRESS
The House yesterday rejected a bill that would have let religious
leaders talk freely about politics without endangering their organizations'
tax-exempt status.
The bill, which caused splits in the religious community and inside the
Republican Party, was defeated on a 239-178 vote. The bill's main proponent,
Rep. Walter B. Jones Jr., North Carolina Republican, told lawmakers that he
would try again next year.
"Today we took a very important step toward bringing freedom of speech
back to our pulpits," Mr. Jones said. "From the first day of the 108th
Congress, I will continue this fight because I believe this battle can be
won and will be won. Congress must return First Amendment rights to our
houses of worship."
The bill would have given religious leaders the right to talk about
politics and make endorsements, effectively lifting the Internal Revenue
Service's ban on political activity at churches, synagogues and mosques.
The issue divided lawmakers during debate Tuesday night.
Rep. Christopher Shays, Connecticut Republican, said the bill would
"erode the separation of church and state, a bedrock value of our nation"
and probably would enable big donors to funnel money through churches.
Rep. John Lewis, Georgia Democrat, said, "If this legislation is
allowed to pass or stand, you could have a minister coming into a pulpit and
saying, 'Vote for so and so because God told me.'"
The bill was supported by the Christian Coalition, the Family Research
Council and the Association of Christian Schools International, but opposed
by other religious organizations.
"Most Americans do not want their churches turned into smoke-filled
rooms where political deals are cut and partisan politics replaces worship,"
said the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the
Separation of Church and State. "When people put their money in the
collection plate, they don't expect it to be used for candidates' campaign
literature and attack ads."
The prohibition on political activity was imposed in 1954 by Congress
on all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations under an amendment offered by Sen.
Lyndon B. Johnson. Before that, religious leaders were involved freely in
political debate.
Religious groups and the government have locked horns over the years
when it comes to politics and the Constitution's guarantees of both free
speech and freedom of religion. After a decade-long battle, for example, the
IRS concluded in 1999 that the Christian Coalition should not be tax-exempt
because of its distribution of voter guides in churches.




3) How do you define Left-Wing strongholds? Any place that's not the deep South? Are you aware of the average SAT scores in such Southern states? Judging from how their SAT scores are behind those of the rest of the nation, some say it's as if the Bible is the only book that most Southern folks really read, if that.

4) Campaign finance reform was >supposedly< doomed at the Supreme Court level decades ago too, wasn't it?

5) your search for "orphanages" didn't turn out much perhaps because euphemistic terms are used now, to try and shed the Dickens connotations amidst the quest for other people's tax dollars.


Having said that, I admire the style of your latest posting. Unlike the ApeMan, you haven't called me a panty waste, or a Hitler or anything like that. And you've addressed my factual assertions with facts as well. I've learned from our exchange today, for which I thank you.
Incidentally, I think abortion is an abhorrent solution to an abhorrent problem, and I wish it wasn't necessary, ever. I'm just not in favor of putting women in prison for it, at least not prior to the partial birth stage (wherever that technically is..which remains vague). I have lived in a religious nation where abortion's illegal (albeit prevalent). I don't think you want such consequences for our own country. I sincerely don't think you do. And I KNOW folks who were adopted and wish they'd never been born. Lots of childhood suicides are disguised by officials as having been mere accidents, but the ones I'm talking about made it to adulthood. Their suffering endures. If fetuses really have souls, don't they go to Heaven (I ask respectfully & sincerely)?
244 posted on 11/04/2002 11:50:03 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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