Oregon single payer initiative/Doctors need help!

AAPS website ^

[kaserkes]

DOCTORS WHO CHALLENGED HILLARY CLINTON'S NATIONAL HEALTH PLAN FIGHT OREGON'S SINGLE PAYER BALLOT MEASURE

On Wed., Oct. 9, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a national non-partisan professional association, held news conferences in Portland and Eugene, Oregon to announce their opposition of the Oregon Ballot Measure 23 that would create a statewide single-payer health care system financed by taxpayers.

The ad campaign will focus on doctors fleeing from the state if the measure is passed, and how supporters from back east are working to pass a plan that they defeated in their own states - calling for Oregon to be their "guinea pigs."

Listen to the spots....

[Route66]

"If I were a conservative out there, I would vote for it and then move out of the state."

I'm sure you don't really mean that because I know you would not be willing to move from a place you love - a place you have roots and family - just to give it away to the socialists to make a point.
The good people of Oregon will not either. Oregon is a beautiful state where about half of the population are good conservatives. The left would never 'give away' a state just to make a point. Neither should we.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

NO, you're wrong. I repeat again, I WANT the system to get voted in because it will fail. If the average taxpayer thinks hybrid socialism-capitalism is so great, then let them have 100% pure socialism. You have read me wrong. The passage of a measure mandating socialized medicine is a great thing. It means that in about 10 years I will be able to buy real estate and business opportunities at pennies on the dollar. Then I would be able to put people back to work. As it sits now, with the amendments that are about to pass in Florida, I will close my business and keep my money to myself. 6 employees will lose their job. The state of Florida will lose someone who contributes thousands to the local economy. Why am I penalizing the "state" and my employees you may ask? Because it's my money. I earned it. I created the capital. Why should it be mandated that I share more than the 50% of that I already do for the "good of society"???? Screw society. It's this warped idea of socialism that is destroying this nation. It's the Marxism of the group instead of the freedom of the individual that will bring us to our knees. Oh sure, the Islamic terrs could sent thousands of people over here and kill millions. But it will be the ignorance of the masses that kills the idea of "America", not the terrorists. I say speed things up and let the socialists have their way. Increase the income tax back up to 80% on earnings over $500,000. Mandate socialized medicine. Set up a $10.00 per hour minimum wage. That way when it all crashes, it crashes faster instead of slow and painfully. So those of us with the hutspa can buy it all up and rebuild it better than before. This time with our freedoms guranteed.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Yes, I do mean it. Read post # 42. I'm tired of all of the pussyfooting around the real issue. It's time to start over.

[Route66]

Well, I can understand your frustration and I share a great deal of it with you, but I still doubt you would think this was a good idea if they planned to start where you and your family live.

Just because a scheme devised by the left does not and will not work does not mean it will be universally seen as a failure and be repealed. Every social program they have wormed in anywhere is still there and has spread like a disease.

The fact that a program is failing is only an excuse to demand more money to throw at it and another excuse to demonize conservatives for not being willing to pay their fair share to 'fix' it.

You may be willing to sacrifice some other state to try to make others see, but it would be in vain. It would only put them one state closer to you - or to getting it enacted nationally, which is what they really want.

You never, never give these people an inch. Looking back on more than thirty years of incrementalism permiating every area of our lives we have seen that inch by inch they can steal it all. I will never stop trying to push them back..wherever I may live.

[2sheep]

Will Americans Vote For Communists, or Socialists, Or Fascists For NWO? - Of Course They Will
   Government Opinion Keywords: COMMUNISTS, SOCIALISTS, FASCISTS, AMERICANS
   Source: Communist Manifesto, Orlando Sentinel
   Published: October 7, 1999 Author: Karl Marx, Charley Reese, Uncle Bill
   Posted on 10/07/1999 16:51:00 PDT by Uncle Bill

Socialist state nearing reality
   Politics/Elections Opinion (Published)
   Source: ajc.com
   Published: 27 Oct 2000 Author: Tom Martin
   Posted on 10/27/2000 10:20:36 PDT by real saxophonist

Here is #7 above:

SOURCE: http://conservativebeacon.com/essays/Socialism/socialist_platform.html

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened" (Norman Thomas, 1936 presidential candidate on the Socialist ticket)

SOCIALIST PLATFORM OF 1928

(NOTE: Herewith the economic planks of the Socialist party platform of 1928, along with an indication in parenthesis of how these planks have fared. The list that follows includes every economic plank, but not the full language of each.)¹

1. "Nationalization of our natural resources, beginning with the coal mines and water sites, particularly at Boulder Dam and Muscle Shoals." (Boulder Dam, renamed Hoover Dam, and Muscle Shoals are now both federal government projects.)
2. "A publicly owned giant power system under which the federal government shall cooperate with the states and municipalities in the distribution of electrical energy to the people at cost." (Tennessee Valley Authority.)
3. "National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication." (Railroad passenger service is completely nationalized through Amtrak. Some freight service is nationalized through Conrail. The FCC controls communications by telephone, telegraph, radio, and television.)
4. "An adequate national program for flood control, flood relief, reforestation, irrigation, and reclamation." (Government expenditures for these purposes are currently in the many [non-adjusted] billions of dollars.)
5. "Immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works ..." (In the 1930s, WPA and PWA were a direct counterpart; now, a wide variety of other programs are.) "All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions." (The Davis-Bacon and Walsh-Healey Acts required contractors with government contracts to pay "prevailing wages," generally interpreted as highest union wages.)
6. "Loans to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works and the taking of such other measures as will lessen widespread misery." (Federal grants in aid to states and local municipalities currently total [non-adjusted] tens of billions of dollars a year.)
7. "A system of unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system)
8. "The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor." (U.S. Employment Service and affiliated state employment services administer a network of about 2,500 [in 1980] local employment offices.)
9. "A system of health and accident insurance and of old age pensions as well as unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system.)
10. "Shortening the workday" and "Securing to every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week." (Legislated by wages and hours laws that require overtime for more than forty hours of work per week.)
11. "Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment." (Not achieved as amendment, but essence incorporated in various legislative acts.)
12. "Abolition of the brutal exploitation of convicts under the contract system and substitution of a cooperative organization of industries in penitentiaries and workshops for the benefit of convicts and their dependents." (Party achieved, partly not.)
13. "Increase of taxation on high income levels, of corporation taxes and inheritance taxes, the proceeds to be used for old age pensions and other forms of social insurance." (In 1928, highest personal income tax rate, 25 percent; in 1978, 70 percent; in 1928, corporate tax rate, 12 percent; in 1978, 48 percent; in 1928, top federal estate tax rate, 20 percent; in 1978, 70 percent.)
14. "Appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all land held for speculation." (Not achieved in this form, but property taxes have risen drastically.)

---

¹ Free to Choose (©1980), Milton & Rose Friedman, pg. 311

PLEASE DON'T STEAL - THE GOVERNMENT HATES COMPETITION

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" Well, I can understand your frustration and I share a great deal of it with you, but I still doubt you would think this was a good idea if they planned to start where you and your family live."

BZZZZTTTTT. Wrongo. They already have. On our ballots, the Northeastern relocated liberals have proposed constitutional amendments that put a ban on smoking in most bars and all "workplaces" (what a great phrase), "free" Pre-K education for all parents, a mandatory class size reduction amendment and a ban on "inhumane" pig farming which will eliminate pork farms as a commercial enterpirse in Florida. The voters, er idiots voted for a high speed "bullet train" to accomodate Disney the citizens which will cost about $15 billion last election. The ballots on this initiative are estimated by some counts to cost over $50 billion over 3 years. So yes, the disease has already spread. Unfortunately there are more Reardens than Galts to know that it is terminal.

"Just because a scheme devised by the left does not and will not work does not mean it will be universally seen as a failure and be repealed. Every social program they have wormed in anywhere is still there and has spread like a disease."

It will not be seen as a failure. Until there is a 40% unemployment rate and no real money to pay for the new socialist utopia. The NEA and the communists have won. Let them have their dream. So it can implode on itself.

"The fact that a program is failing is only an excuse to demand more money to throw at it and another excuse to demonize conservatives for not being willing to pay their fair share to 'fix' it. "

"Fair Share". My favorite phrase. You need to rephrase that sentence to read " to extract via gunpoint the necessary funds".

"You may be willing to sacrifice some other state to try to make others see, but it would be in vain. It would only put them one state closer to you - or to getting it enacted nationally, which is what they really want. "

They are already here. They have spent the last decade moving to Florida. Jeb will probably be the last conservative gov elected here. I will be gone before his second term ends as will my business. I plan to retire in 6 or 7 years. If our country takes the anticipated path that I can see, I will take the approach of withdrawing my money and leaving. I'll come back when it's cheap and capitalist again. Then America will be spelled with a "c" instead of a "k".

[Nuke'm Glowing]

That pretty much sums up my opinion.

[elbucko]

Doctors have NOT done well with Medicare -- an hour of paperwork/compliance for every hour of patient care-- sometimes for $18 office call. You try doing your job with the threat of going to jail or getting fined $250,000 every time you fill out a form.

Oh puleeze! Spare me the tears. Every business, esp. a government contractor (as I have been) is subject to the same paperwork and punishment. A physician in my community takes nothing but medicare patients. He says all you gotta do is check the right box on the right form and a check arrives 90 days later and you don't even have to be correct in diagnosis.

Look Doc, I don't want to rub your nose in the medical communities mess, but the stink gets noticed by predatory politicians and hungry activists. Just like tort reform. The medico's in CA and NV have enough clout with the state house to get some reform for THEMSELVES. How about a movememnt of "Concerned Physicians for Medical Savings Accounts". What? Not a chance. You don't have time! Now you want public support so you won't wind up a gov't employee. I'm not moved.

[2sheep]

I thought it would. In Europe the communists are called socialists. Americans for the most part haven't caught on yet.

Here are a couple of Uncle Bill posts on the "Third Way," the globalist place between Communism and Capitalism.   On different threads:  2 --  895

[garden variety]

>You never, never give these people an inch. Looking back on more than thirty years of incrementalism permiating every area of our lives we have seen that inch by inch they can steal it all. I will never stop trying to push them back..wherever I may live.

Amen!

[Russell Scott]

If it wasn't for the intense concentration of liberals in Portland, Eugene and Ashland.

Let me rephrase that for you: If it wasn't for the intense concentration of voter fraud in Portland, Eugene and Ashland.

[Eva]

I was introduced to a woman from Portland today, I said oh, you poor thing, if that healthcare initiative passes it will make living in Oregon impossible. Her answer was, I know, we will have every vagrant in the country on our doorstep. So, My guess is, that view is probably widely held.

[cfrels]

Didn't they pass something like this in Tennessee a few years ago and now Tenn is going broke and fighting hard to pass an income tax to pay for all the "free" healthcare??

Any Tennesseans out there??

[cfrels]

OOPS! Sorry, I should have read down more before speaking...

[dixiechick2000]

I see you found GailA's link in post 11.

Eva, the people behind this measure don't think it will pass, they are just hoping for a good showing (40%). However, with a good showing, they would rework it and, not only put it on the ballot again, but take it to other states. It looks, right now, like this measure is going down in flames. I hope this polling data is correct (25% support).

[Eva]

This is not the first version of the socialized medicine in Oregon. Oregon was one of the states that was chosen for a limited trial version of Hillary Care, during Clinton's second term. I think that it was also tried in Tennessee and Texas and a few other states. (Bush hated it and that's why the Dems were able to make the accusation of poor healthcare for children.

Three years ago, when my father=in=law was dying of lung cancer, some stupid Oregonian politician came on the lung cancer support site to tout the healthcare plan that they were trying to get passed in Oregon when the trial was over.

[kaserkes]

I'm not a doctor, so my nose is just fine. FYI, it sounds like your "friend" is a crook -- so I guess your opinion of the medical profession is based on the company you keep.

A doctor and his wife were just sentenced to jail terms last night in Springfield, IL for checking the wrong boxes.

The regs for Medicare alone are 170,000 pages -- I doubt you've ever read that many pages.

Youa re so far off the subject -- payment isn't the issue in Oregon -- it's about government control of medicine -- a state panel making decisions about what's medically neccsary. About your tax dollars paying for abortions, language interpreters, rides to the clinic, etc for every tax-exempt person who shows up at the state line.

[lewislynn]

. I mean what a great advertisement to say "see, such and such wants our state to look like Oregon". I love it.

I'll refer to another post that I made, but to emphasize a point that I think is critical. You can not teach the "public" a lesson with campaign ads,

You're not only a jealous California/west coast hating nitwit, you're a confused hypocrite as well

[lewislynn]

I'm calling the DNC to see if I can get an Oregon absentee ballot to vote for this sucker!!!

Not to mention a lowlife crook stooping to Democrat tactics.

[dixiechick2000]

Do you have an online source for that? I'm not questioning you, it's just that I must have missed that and am curious about it.

I know about the Oregon Health Plan, but it's been around longer than the one you describe. That's a sham. My daughter's sister-in-law is a single mom making $10/hr. She makes too much money to qualify, thus she has no insurance. However, illegals qualify for the plan. It's truly disgusting.