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To: ancient_geezer
As a factual matter, you're absolutely right. You could make a national sales tax progressive by use of tax rebates.
But the politics of taxes are, unless you can show that, say, the top 1% income earners will pay the same percentage of taxes as they do under the present system, the Dems will filibuster it in the Senate and they will use class warfare politics against us at the next election.

The other problem with the national sales tax is that its too easy to cheat on it because it's only collected at the final retail sales step. For good or ill, a NSRT will quickly morph into a Value-Added Tax. Since every step of production is taxed (and tax credits are given for the taxes paid at the previous stages of production), it is much harder to evade than a NRST.

Most libertarians HATE the VAT tax because it is so efficient that it becomes too easy to raise revenue and thus expand the size of government (its the main revenue source for EU governments).
31 posted on 10/31/2002 12:00:08 PM PST by Maximum Leader
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To: Maximum Leader

But the politics of taxes are, unless you can show that, say, the top 1% income earners will pay the same percentage of taxes as they do under the present system, the Dems will filibuster it in the Senate and they will use class warfare politics against us at the next election.

They already do, that is not a reason to not work for a change to the NRST. I have found it very easy to sell the NRST to persons of all political affiliations, as there is a clear economic gain for every individual in the country under the NRST.

The other problem with the national sales tax is that its too easy to cheat on it because it's only collected at the final retail sales step.

So how is an NRST any easier to cheat than the personal income tax which one merely needs to not file and enter a cash economy to evade entirely. Under a Retail Sales Tax, the business is held responsible for collection, the business takes the risk for a consumer's advantage? No large business will operate at such a risk and less than 20% of businesses do more than 80% of the sales volume. The oppertunity to cheat is comparatively low.

For good or ill, a NSRT will quickly morph into a Value-Added Tax.

Nice blanket statement, however the fact is an NRST is levied at the retail level only, manufacturing, labor unions, etc will not take kindly to taxes moving into the production sector once relieved of the cost burdens associated with income and payroll taxes. There is little reason to believe that business will not fight such a move tooth and nail as well as the fact that Value Added Taxes are held in very poor reguard politically, inspite of the fact that the current income/payroll tax levied on business is a subtraction method VAT. With it's elimination business is not likely to welcome it back.

Most libertarians HATE the VAT tax because it is so efficient

Agreed, so tell me again how the VAT is so popular that a Single Stage, Single Rate, Visible tax (The NRST) is going to morph into a tax that is levied on business at all stages of production, with the cost that are inherent with such taxes.

33 posted on 10/31/2002 12:40:29 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Maximum Leader
 

Most libertarians HATE the VAT tax because it is so efficient that it becomes too easy to raise revenue and thus expand the size of government (its the main revenue source for EU governments).

http://www.taxfoundation.org/foundationmessage03-00.html

"Under the WTO definition of the term, a sales tax is an indirect tax, as is an European-style VAT. The economic equivalence of an European-style VAT and a subtraction-method VAT is well-established. A subtraction-method VAT is essentially identical to a business income tax except that all purchases of plant and equipment may be expensed, rather than depreciated as under current U.S. law."

And every man woman and child in the nation, pay federal taxes through that VAT.

DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?

by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation

The full impact of the federal tax system(taxes in gross wage/salaries & other compensation + business income/payroll taxes) added onto the base(taxfree) price of retail consumption goods and services is 36% for federal tax revenues alone, that is not counting the overhead burdens imposed in the collection of the federal income/payroll taxes.

The House Ways & Means Committee hearings listening to how and why we need to make that change to make our Corporate tax system totally WTO compliant.

I would suggest your concerns about a VAT have already gone down the tubes and we should be looking to remove the defacto VAT that is currently in place by going to the single stage NRST.

34 posted on 10/31/2002 12:53:38 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Maximum Leader
And another thing to think about is that we will end up with BOTH a VAT and an income tax. Both will grow to obscene levels. This is what happened in Britain. They pushed through the idea of a Value Added Tax based on the premise that the income tax would be eliminated. They said they just needed it for a few years until the VAT was fully phased in. Well, guess what? The income tax was never eliminated. Now they have a high income tax AND a 17.5% VAT as well. We don't want a VAT believe me, unless you want bigger government like the EU/EC.
122 posted on 11/02/2002 4:17:21 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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