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67 Hostages Killed, 700 Rescued in Russian raid on Chechen Terrorists
San Mateo County TImes - LA TIMES ^

Posted on 10/26/2002 2:51:40 AM PDT by BurbankKarl

Article Last Updated: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 2:57:53 AM MST

Russians storm theater Captors were 'liquidated,' officials say By John Daniszewski and David Holley By John Daniszewski and David Holley Los Angeles Times

MOSCOW -- Police commandos armed with sleeping gas and blazing guns stormed a theater here early today and overcame Chechen separatists holding about 700 hostages. Authorities said they were forced to launch the rescue after rebels began to kill captives. The leader of the hostage-takers and around 30 of his companions were "liquidated," officials said. There was still no official word about the toll among the hostages. An Australian diplomat was told that the number was no more than 10, and that none of the estimated 75 foreigners were among the dead. But a police officers said he saw "a lot of corpses."

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TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
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To: Ally
That kid with the blood on his hands, didn't the IDF snatch him a few months later?
41 posted on 10/26/2002 5:49:02 AM PDT by Skip Ripley
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To: BabsC
"...Waco was caused by the democrats...

You have some serious reality problems. Or should I say "problemos"?

Who was governor of the Great State of Texas at that time?

Who was President when the government mounted a military operation against a family in Idaho who just wanted to live in the mountains in their tar-paper shack--killing a child and a mother with a baby at her breast?

42 posted on 10/26/2002 5:51:08 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: Skip Ripley
Him and others who took part in this animal vicious murder
43 posted on 10/26/2002 5:57:16 AM PDT by Ally
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To: BillM
Waco didn't disturb the Democrats.

This point bears repeating because I'm sure the knee-jerk liberals will be howling about how "inhumanely"the Russians treated those poor Chechnyan protesters and freedom fighters.

44 posted on 10/26/2002 6:02:45 AM PDT by albee
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To: SkyPilot
They are not Islamic Terrorists? Oh, that's right, CNN called them "freedom fighters" or "rebels." On Reuters they were students.Anything but Muslim fanatics and murderers.

I agree. The media's collective butt-covering for worldwide fanatical Islam has reached absurd proportions. For instance, it appears that unless some whack job in this country has marching orders signed by Osama Bin Laden himself, any mayhem he does is an "isolated incident" unconnected with militant Islam (either that, or Gulf War service and the NRA are to blame).

45 posted on 10/26/2002 6:05:16 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: SkyPilot
so well said, and if I may add, liqidation of wacky pranksters is a kind and gentle way of improving a bad situation.
46 posted on 10/26/2002 6:09:38 AM PDT by wita
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To: A_perfect_lady
They don't realize that the Muslims would machine-gun Susan Sarandon as soon as they had no further use for her. And that's my only comfort. (-:

The rest of the Hollywood bimbos would put on their burkas so fast your head would spin.

47 posted on 10/26/2002 6:20:03 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: wita

From Pravda.RU:

67 Hostages Die in Hostage Release Operation, Over 750 Rescued

Russian Deputy Minister for Internal Affairs Vladimir Vasilyev told journalists that 67 hostages died at the storm of the theatre in Moscow, over 750 people were released; 34 terrorists were killed.

Vladimir Vasilyev says that “if the operation failed, a thousand of people, or even more would die.” The decision to start the storm was correct, the deputy minister for internal affairs says. According to, Vladimir Vasilyev doubts that construction of the theatre building would leave at least some people alive if explosions sounded there.

The deputy minister denied information that majority of hostages died of the gas used in the storm.

Vladimir Vasilyev says he talked to Kirtadze, the head physician of the war veterans’ hospital #1, where severely wounded hostages had been brought. There are 104 wounded hostages in the hospital; nine died, but none of them died of poisoning. Kirtadze says that the people died mostly of heart diseases, and explains these lamentable consequences with a three-day stress, starvation, lack of medical aid.

The decision to storm the theatre was made by the operative headquarters set up for the hostages’ release with the HQ commander, FSB deputy director Vladimir Pronichev at head. In Vasilyev’s words, with a view to save lives of the hostages, “the HQ allowed any claims of the terrorists, sometimes even rather unbelievable ones.” “We tried to fulfil all claims set up by the terrorists. But everything we heard them say, made us think more and more about actions to prevent the building from blowing up.” That is why it’s quite natural that parallel to the negotiations with the terrorists, the operative headquarters worked on a special operation.

Vladimir Vasilyev says that preparation for the operation was highly professional, all necessary facilities were employed for it. Much was done to get as many hostages released as possible, special particular negotiations were held concerning release of hostage children. “We felt real danger, that is why it was decided to start the special operation. And we admit responsibility for it. The Prosecutor’s Office will give its estimate to the work of the headquarters,” the deputy minister for internal affairs says.

Right after the storm of the theatre, Russian newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets talked to a soldier participating in the storm who told about the hostage release.

“We think everything was done professionally, as it is fixed in the operative instructions. It is really very important that we were a success in the psychological war. There was leakage of information saying that the storm would start at 3:00 a.m. The terrorists pricked up the ears, but no storm followed. Then they started firing. It is quite natural that as a consequence of it, the terrorists relaxed. We started the storm at 5:00 a.m. Sleeping gas was let into the theatre hall through the ventilation, several grenades were fired right in the hall. We managed to liquidate the female kamikaze: soldiers penetrated into the hall through special crawlways and shot the sleeping terrorists point-blank. Right at the temple. I agree that it’s cruel, but when you see a man with two kilograms of plastid strapped to the body, there is no other way to neutralize him. Besides, panic spread immediately. Here, we once again suffered from our constant mistake: lack of coordination between the actions of subdivisions. Several terrorists in the corridor started firing, those people who were not asleep after the gas penetrated into the theatre, rushed out of the hall. They ran against the special forces troops that blocked the exits.

As a result, soldiers remaining in the hall opened fire against the balconies, luckily none was wounded at that. In the mess several terrorists managed to escape. By the way, there were several people outside the theatre building, not two as was reported earlier, who communicated with the terrorists over cell phones and told them what was going on outside the building. By the way, they were not of Caucasian appearance at all. We noticed these people at once and closely watched them all the time. I should say that on the whole we are satisfied with the course of the operation. Our soldiers are elated by the success, especially that it was the first successful operation over several past years.”

President Vladimir Putin held a meeting with RF Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov, Minister for Internal Affairs Boris Gryzov, FSB Director Nikolay Patrushev and Foreign Intelligence Service Director Sergey Lebedev. The information was provided by the president’s press-secretary Alexey Gromov; no details concerning the agenda have been published yet.

Translated by Maria Gousseva

48 posted on 10/26/2002 6:20:35 AM PDT by American72
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci

Who was governor of the Great State of Texas at that time?

Ann Richards was Governor of Texas in 1993. GW wasn't elected until 1994.

49 posted on 10/26/2002 6:23:22 AM PDT by American72
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
How involved do you think the President of the UNited States of America, or any governor of any state is in the daily mundane and normal operations of federeral agencies? Especially when they are not briefed of who, what, when, why and where, and even if briefed, the line of BS emanating from federal authorities in the two cases mentioned was enough to steamroll just about anyone. So why not add a little more so the rest of us will know precisely what your point is.
50 posted on 10/26/2002 6:26:18 AM PDT by wita
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To: A_perfect_lady
I've heard stories about how the Russians deal with Chechens and it usually involves torture and removal of bodily parts. "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

A perfectly lady-like response. ;^) I agree 100%.

51 posted on 10/26/2002 6:28:01 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: BurbankKarl
Very sad that any of the victims had to die, ut I really expected the fatality count to be much higher. Actually me and some friends were talking about sleeping gas yesterday at work. Just knock everybody out and then sort them out. All in all I wouls say the Russians did pretty good. Especially by showing that they will not give in to terrorist Islamic pukes.
52 posted on 10/26/2002 6:29:37 AM PDT by Delbert
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Me thinks you need a history lesson before you shoot your mouth off.

BTW...Ma Richards was the gov back then. Bush was elected in '94...thankfully. If Clayton Williams had not been such an idiot...he would have been the gov back then and things may have been different.

53 posted on 10/26/2002 6:35:28 AM PDT by NELSON111
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To: American72
Thanks, great article. Of particular interest, was the mention of those being watched outside the building, who were not of the caucasian persuasion, and were involved in the passing of intelligence to the perps via cell phone. I do hope they were not left out of fun of the liquidation.
54 posted on 10/26/2002 6:39:52 AM PDT by wita
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To: All
Interesting new development if confirmed:

"ITAR-TASS informs with reference to sources in the United Group of Troops' headquarters, a large-scale special operation has been launched in Chechnya. "Special forces of the army are searching the republic for all kinds of terrorist groups." Three terrorists have already been killed near the settlement of Novogroznensky after they attempted to put up resistance to the special forces. Servicemen say that food supplied by the Danish charitable organization to the republic was found near the place where the three terrorists were killed. Documents, weapons, explosives, and drugs were withdrawn from the terrorists."

Some time earlier, a video tape was demonstrated, in which Aslan Maskhadov actually claimed responsibility for the terrorist act in Moscow."

55 posted on 10/26/2002 6:39:52 AM PDT by Elenya
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To: BurbankKarl
This was an extraordinary success. They've pulled off a rescue in a no hope scenerio. Great job!
56 posted on 10/26/2002 6:40:21 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: putupon
" . . .there should be alot of howling going on right now."

The howling here is a silent rage. Islam is gauging it very closely. If they are not, they should be.

57 posted on 10/26/2002 7:01:47 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: listenhillary
My very first thought also.
58 posted on 10/26/2002 7:04:14 AM PDT by not-an-ostrich
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To: MindBender26
At War With EVIL (by FReeper GaryMontana)

What did we (in America) learn from September 11, 2001 and the deaths of 3,000 people. I am tempted to admit: Absolutely nothing.

Among the many unlearned lessons of Day-Which-Will-Live-In-Infamy-II-- the necessity to control our borders, the need for a patriotic renewal and the importance of combating multiculturalism -- the most significant is the nature of Islam. You will note that I do not say militant Islam, or radical Islam, or Islamic extremism or other such weasel words – but Islam, period.

Every one of the hijackers who flew airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were professing and practicing Moslems, as is Osama bin Laden. The Al Qaeda terrorist network, is based in Moslem countries and supported financially by the so called pious Moslem leadership of Saudi Arabia.

The overwhelming majority of Moslem religious authorities who have spoken out on the subject, including those at the main mosque in Mecca and Egypt’s prestigious Al Azar University, either endorse or rationalize acts of terrorism. On a day when Americans were incinerated or buried under tons of rubble, Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia, celebrated in the streets.

Sept. 11 was one chapter in a 1400-year jihad. Every day, the World Trade Center massacre is reenacted on a smaller scale somewhere in the world. Jewish women and children are burned alive in a bus in Israel. A missionary is beheaded in the Philippines, gunmen shoot up a church in Pakistan (deliberately firing into the prostrate bodies of women trying to shield their children). Ancient monasteries and convents are destroyed in Kosovo. Women are sentenced to death for adultery in Nigeria, Hindus are murdered in the Kashmir. In Denmark, the Muslim community there has put a $30,000 bounty on the heads of Jews and those who support Israel. Nuns are beheaded in Baghdad, Christians in Sudan are forced into slavery, and in Britain, Islam openly states it is going to take over not only the UK, but the whole world -- and the beat goes on.

Genocide in the Sudan, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, religious persecution in Saudi Arabia, calls for another holocaust in mosques from Mecca to Gaza, the imposition of Islamic law in Nigeria, forced conversions in Indonesia, synagogues burned in France, Jews attacked across Europe – these are everyday events, as Third World and much of the First slowly turns Islamic green.

Sadly our leaders, from President Bush on down, insist on peddling the absurdity that Islam is a religion of peace – a creed of kindness and benevolence tragically and inexplicably corrupted by fanatics.

Why is the leadership of the West reluctant to confront manifest reality? The reason lies partly with our absurd foreign policy. We have declared certain Moslem nations to be our loyal allies – including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. We would not want to offend these dear friends by saying something unflattering about their bloody, butcherly, dark ages faith.

Americans are naturally benevolent. Most of us are taught from childhood that is religion is good (and it does not matter which religion). As long as little Johnny believes in God and goodness, it’s inconsequential whether he lights candles, wears a skull cap to services or prays in the direction of Mecca.

This works with every religion except Islam.

Consider the following: Of the three major western religions: one was started by a lawgiver who helped to free slaves; one by a man of peace; the last one by a man who loved war and having sex with children. Mohammed not only led men into battle, he enjoyed marrying girls as young as six years old (it is in the Koran). The essence of his message is sick and disgusting. A holy war where you slaughter your enemies, while at the same time encouraging followers to have sex with the children they capture (as he did) for the glory of Allah. He even advised his followers to negotiate false peace treaties in order to lull their enemies.

For almost 1,400 years, that has been the reality of Islam. Within a century after the death of Mohammed, Islam spread throughout the Middle East and across North Africa. It overran the Iberian peninsula and was finally stopped in southern France. It spread eastward as far as the southern Philippines. It was not propagated by fresh-faced young men knocking on doors and announcing: “Hello. I’m from your local mosque. Have you considered the Koran?” It was and is spread by force – conversion by the sword or death. This is still in practice today.

Some will respond that all religions go through periods of violence, usually in their infancy. Christianity had its crusades and Inquisition, its forced conversions and expulsions. The evil committed in the name of Christ happened centuries ago. The evil committed in the name of the Prophet is going on now, as you read these words. Of 22 conflicts in the Third World, 20 involve Moslems versus someone else. Coincidence? In his brilliant book, “Clash of Cultures and the Remaking of World Order,” Samuel Huntington speaks of Islam’s “bloody borders.”

There is no Methodist Jihad, no Jewish Hasidic holy warriors, no Buddhist monk wanting to have 72 virgins waiting for him after a suicide bombing, no Hindu Holy men plotting to blow up people, no Southern Baptist suicide bombers, no Mormon elders preaching the annihilation of members of other faiths.

Islam is a warrior religion – the perfect vessel for fanatics, the violence-prone, the envious and haters of all stripes. This is one reason why Islam is making so many converts among the peaceable denizens of our prison system.

Still, much of the West is addicted to a fairy-tale version of Islam. Christian and Jewish clergy fall all over themselves to have interfaith services with imams. Representatives of Moslem groups are invited to the White House. The president signs a Ramadan declaration. In California, public schools ask children to role-play at being Moslems. Our universities take carefully selected verses from the Koran and present them as the essence of the faith. All that’s needed is a Moslem character on “Sesame Street.” Look – it’s the Jihad Monster!

This perspective engenders a fatally false sense of security. Imagine, in 1940, Winston Churchill taking to the airwaves to announce “Nazism is an ideology of peace which, regrettably, has been perverted by a few fanatics like Hitler and Goebbels. But most storm troopers and SS men are fine follows – your friends and neighbors.”

For the first thousand years of its history – from the death of Mohammad to the 17th. century decline of the Ottoman empire, Islam was an expansionist force. For the next 300 years, as the West rose to preeminence, Islam receded. For the past four decades – fueled by Arab oil wealth, a surplus population in the Middle East, the waning of the West and the rise of more virulent strains of the faith (Shiism, Wahhabism, Sunni fundamentalism) – Islam is expanding once more.

Due to Moslem immigration and aggressive proselytizing, Islam is being exported to the West. Moslem populations are burgeoning throughout Western Europe. (In southern France, there are more mosques than churches.) In Judeo-Christian America, Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is also spreading down the coast of West Africa, through the Balkans (after Serbia, Macedonia is the next target) and up from Mindanao in the Philippines.

Wherever it comes, Islam brings its delightful customs – child marriages, female circumcisions, rabid hatred toward Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists and every other non-muslim, terrorism and support for terrorism and a virulent intolerance of other faiths.

Am I suggesting we declare war on over 1 billion million Moslems? The question is moot – Islam has declared war on the rest of the human race. When one side knows it’s at war and the other thinks peace and brotherhood prevail, guess who wins?

Ultimately, it is not about Jews in Israel, or Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, or Hindus in Kashmir, Buddhists in Thailand, or Maronite Catholics in Lebanon, Taoists in China, or Christians in Sudan and Nigeria, but all of us. As Ben Franklin would have it – Either we will hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately.

59 posted on 10/26/2002 7:08:21 AM PDT by blam
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Who was governor of the Great State of Texas at that time [Waco]?

Democrat Ann Richards.

60 posted on 10/26/2002 7:09:59 AM PDT by DallasMike
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