Bush says does not support independence for Taiwan -(Bush Shafts Taiwan, mine)

Reuters ^ | 10-26-02

[tallhappy]

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush said on Friday the United States would use its influence to ensure China and Taiwan settle their differences peacefully and promised to make it clear to Taipei that Washington does not support independence.

In a news conference with Chinese President Jiang Zemin, Bush said the United States stood by the "one China" policy, which acknowledges that Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China.

"The 'one China' policy means that the issue ought to be resolved peacefully," Bush said.

"We've got influence with some in the region. We intend to make sure that the issue is resolved peacefully, and that includes making it clear that we do not support independence," Bush added.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, has voiced support for a referendum on formal independence from China.

The move outraged Beijing, which views the island as a renegade province and a linchpin in Sino-U.S. relations.

Beijing had hoped Bush would repeat a pledge not to back independence for Taiwan, which China says must eventually be reunified with the mainland, by force if necessary.

Nationalists headed by Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to Mao Zedong's communists. Washington shifted diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 1979.

But the United States has offered Taiwan the biggest arms package in a decade and Bush has pledged to do "whatever it takes" to help the democratically governed island protect itself.

Bush did not repeat that pledge at Friday's news conference.

But during a visit to China earlier this year, he said, "When my country makes an agreement, we stick with it, and there is (something) called the Taiwan Relations Act and I honour that act, which says we will help Taiwan defend herself if provoked."

China says it is seriously concerned about the U.S. warming to Taiwan under Bush and has called on Washington to halt military contacts and arms sales to the island.

[The Pheonix]

People, people,
Remember the "tit-for -tat" principle, or "Newton's Law",i.e. "for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction"

If the US openly supports Taiwanese Independence, then using the same principle, it should also supports the independence for;

KASHMIR,
THE BASQUE IN SPAIN
THE IRISH IRA IN NORTHERN IRELAND
MAORIS IN NEW ZEALAND
BHUTAN IN INDIA
ACHEH IN INDONESIA
THE ABORIGINAL INDEPENDENCE IN AUSTRALIA
THE KHALISTAN IN INDIA
THE NAGALAND IN INDONESIA
THE MORO LIBERATION IN THE PHILIPINES
THE IRIAN INDEPENDENCE IN INDONESIA
THE CHECHENS IN RUSSIA
why single out only Taiwan, "DOUBLE STANDARDS ???????"

AND how about our own Farakkhan's call for imdependence for the American NATION OF ISLAM. How would we feel if CHina supports the American Natives Call for Independence ????

[Quix]

Whether the Spratleys or wherever China would find an artifact or any other excuse to flex their muscle, in their own time and way, they will be likely to do so . . . as long as they have the capacity and feel they could win.

In some cases they'd do it for spite even if they thought they'd lose. Losing 700 million or more, in the process, would be quite acceptable to SOME of their leaders.

[Jeff Head]

HERE

... less the Canada part.

[Quix]

I think it depends on how the independence issue is couched. . . and the contingencies involved.

If they could have a sort of Commonwealth approach where they had their own defense policy and system etc. and Beijing wouldn't be too interferring--most of them would go for it in a flash.

I don't know how many are willing to risk how much to defend and independent Taiwan. It would depend on a lot of factors at the time.

[The Pheonix]

What about our own CIvil War ???

Before we are called "hypocrits", let us pause and think for a moment ,this question

"Does China has as much right to "recover" Taiwan, as Pres Abe Lincoln, and the Union, to go to war to stop the South from seceding from the Union ???"

Anyone see the parallel here ?????

[Quix]

They heretofore HAVEN'T HAD the sea capacity. That's a problem they are rapidly correcting. Along with the capacity to sink our aircraft carriers etc.

[Dave S]

Since when does the U.S. not support Independence?

Remember what was called the Civil War circa 1860's.

[BillCompton]

Bill, you are 100% to say that all the Bush's cabinet agrees with him here

That is not the proposition. I would like to see Taiwan be recognized, but I think, short of China doing something very bad, that we should not do it. The Troll, who is really just trying to stir people up for his own humor rather than seriously debating the issue made the claim that there were plenty of people from plenty of adminstrations who favored recognition. I would like to step on Hillary's toe, but I think it would be a bad idea. At the nexus of thought and deed, we should restrain our emotional desires in favor of rational prudence.

[Quix]

I wish you were totally right.

The first few days I was back in Taipei, I was sitting in a restaurant next to another customer. This portly lady was delerious about how wonderful the Communist land was by comparison. I was shocked. She'd have been locked up or worse 30 years ago. She could have been a convert to Communism somehow. She was very hostile to capitalism and the Taiwan government. She'd not have dared speak up 30 years ago. Now, there is an old car that wanders around Taipei with all kinds of Communist propaganda on it.

There are some who talk that way. Most fellow citizens think of them as the derranged folk they are.

Some "normal" people, whatever that is, do speak wistfully of a harmonious joining in a unified democratic, capitalist China. No "normal" person I know of wants reunification with Communist China and definitely not on Beijing's terms.

[BillCompton]

No info on Canada invading VT. Guess you'll have to arrange that on your own.

In my fantasy, W comes on the screen and somberly explains how we tried everything in our ability to defeat the Canadian agressors, but were unable to prevail and that we had to face this unpleasant fact: Vermont now belonged to Canada.

[BillCompton]

Do you think the author could add the Canada part in somehow?

[Quix]

Exactly.

But perhaps more . . . telling or something . . .

Pride is such an inherent cultural aspect it almost seems genetic.

Two low level laborers can be both riding their aged bikes in the evening rush hour--both bikes so covered in rust and scratches one can't see anything but rust and scratches. And bike A will slightly scrape bike B. Immediately the riders are at each other's throats literally over pride. They probably couldn't find the alledged new scratch but still they take up clubs and go at it in front of the gathering throng.

When I spoke to a sizeable group of leaders, they asked what I felt, as a resident observer, China's main problems were. When I mentioned pride--they murmmered agreeingly and knowingly. They had no solution.

I could say more but though they probably already know who I am, I'd not like to prove it to them.

[Quix]

How and where has he gone beyond?

I felt DILLDO AND SHRILLERY sold us down the river to Beijing WITH AND IN ADDITION TO Taiwan.

[Quix]

When the chips are down, how could the business card be effectively played against Beijing?

They have no compunctions about appropriating whatever they wish to in the interest of the State. They feel and have proven that their market accessess is leverage enough to get most anything they want out of most any part or all of the west.

They've certainly stolen enough defense secrets--what they didn't pay out right to DILLDO AND SHRILLERY for.

[Dave S]

Dave S, you are simply very uninformed which makes your comments not accurate.

If I am so uninformed, please tell me why we have diplomatic relations with the real China and none with Taiwan and havent for nearly thirty years? Hmmmm?

[Quix]

Oh, they'd be happy to carve us up and take whatever spoils for their aggrandizement as suited their tastes and needs at the time.

I think it's already too late. We'd have to obliterate virtually all their nuclear capacity in a surprise attack with our "UFO" platforms or some such to even survive well such a conflict. And we're not about to do that. Short of that, they will have their way with us for a time.

We have asked God and the world to humiliate us since we are so unwilling to be humble and submissive to God as THE BOSS. He is moving chess pieces to accomodate our need for humility. It is only a matter of time, not IF.

[Dave S]

Who was the president who granted China PERMANENT "Most Favored Nation" trade status?

Only Congress can do that, not the President.

[Quix]

Would love to see him be more aggressive in support of Taiwan even covertly. Other than covertly, I don't expect to see it.

[Quix]

Taiwan has to play that one very cautiously. They get virtually ALL their oil & gas from Saudi Arabia. Their electricity, plastics industry, cooking gas; energy for industry etc. all comes from there.

I think they should buy 3 years worth of supplies and store it in secret caverns. But they won't do it. They may have 3-4 months capacity.

[Quix]

Well his pappy construed himself to be a China expert having lived 2 years in the rarified atmosphere of Ambassador to China. What rubbish. He was about as ignorant of China as anyone I've observed on the world stage. It was shocking the things he said and did vis a vis China. I was aghast.

His son shows a bit more pluck but I'm not sure that goes very far in terms of China.

Sure I'd have liked to have seen Bush be tons more assertive regarding Taiwan. But really, Tallhappy, what would you have done that differently IF your goal was to get Iraq first?

I really think China is too powerful already to challenge very much--especially in their lap. I'd sure love to be wrong.