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To: donh
There's a phrase for this mode of reasoning: Moral abdication.

You're job is to get to the bottom of the matter. You got to interview the complaintent, then the accused, then find some witnesses. What's that? Most have been dead for a century? You got a problem in pursuing justice.

Even the churches most imaginative apologists can't manage to chaulk up one oven's worth of saved jews.

The first and greatest Jewish authority on the subject was Hungarian Jew, Jeno Levai. He defended the Pope at the Frankfurt trial of the last Auschwitz personnel taken prisoner, as late as 1964. However, on the papal side, the blockbuster is the work of Pinhas Lapide, one-time brigade major in the British army, Jewish journalist and diplomat.

Lapide worked in Israel and had access to the great centre of archives, "Yad Vashem". In his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews (London, 1967), he surveys the entire area covered by the anti-Jewish policy, points out the measures taken and the lives saved in each region. He reaches a total of 860,000 lives saved through Pius XII's programme. Another writer, David Herstig, writing in 1967 (Die Rettung, Stuttgart) calculated that 360,000 Romanian Jews in Israel owed their lives to the Pope.

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1,513 posted on 12/11/2002 5:46:44 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
You're job is to get to the bottom of the matter. You got to interview the complaintent, then the accused, then find some witnesses. What's that? Most have been dead for a century? You got a problem in pursuing justice.

I ain't pursuing justice, I'm pursuing morality, which has no statute of limits, or OJSimpson defense teams.

1,517 posted on 12/12/2002 11:43:38 AM PST by donh
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To: Tribune7
860,000 lives saved

One single oven consumed approx. 1,000,000 jewish lives. By contrast, the Danish Lutheran congegations, whose Spiritual leader did NOT sign a concord of silence with Hitler, spirited at least 90% of their jews out from under the SS, WHILE A DEFEATED AND OCCUPIED COUNTRY.

Throughout history, the Papacy has instigated policy and doctrine that inspired laity to persecute jews, whereupon, the church rises high on it's holy shanks to express shocked disapproval--short, of course, of any but symbolic remedial action.

800,000/6,000,000 = ~12% -- pardon me if I'm not bowled over. And, by the way, that net count should be credited to the Church, not PIUS XII personally, Zucotti looked quite extensively into the justification for associating PIUS XII's name with all this body count, and found the evidence rather less than overwhelming, unless it's your job to seek sainthood for PIUS the silent--whom, I'll remind you once again, unambiguously signed an accord with Hitler to shut up about the jews, in return for fat trinkets for the Church in Germany.

1,518 posted on 12/12/2002 12:01:59 PM PST by donh
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