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To: Lorianne
The benevolent dictator model was never really successful.

And yet so many women, pleased with the Matriarchy America has degenerated into in 2002, want that. Flip through some of these "conversation of the sexes" threads, and look how many women embrace the advantage that the current system provides them, telling men that if they'd just be good, and please every whim of the women they're with perfectly, be "sensitive" et al, why, they'll never need to worry about the consequences of an unfair system. Embracing a Matriarchal "benevolent dictatorship" is exactly what they're asking of men. It doesn't work: look around. The more matriliineal society becomes, the more of a wreck it becomes.

Most people (and most women) would prefer to live in mutually dependent and equivalent partnerships rather than rely on the benevolency of a supposed superior.

Cute theory.

Actually, I used to be an egalitarian, until I realized that egalitarianism is something the masses don't comprehend. Also, it tends to be a cloak for one-sided agendas; I'd rather just be honest and advocate the agenda I advocate without any cloaking.

Too, caste systems of social organization (of all kinds) have consistently been left behind for better systems over the long span of history.

Let's be honest: it has always been cyclical. One caste system gets replaced by some idealistic new vision, which in relatively short order gets replaced by a new caste system, which foments resentment, which becomes rebellion, and the cycle repeats, ad infinitum, It has not been a line: for better or for worse, it has been a circle.

Look at all of the societies that prosper today vs. those which don't.

Uh, can you name one that does? If you're planning on saying the USA, can you honestly say that the USA is prosperous in terms of intact families, society's most critical barometer, vs. 50 years ago?

Those with rigid class and gender assignment with little social mobility or self determination allowed (for those in the regulated castes) are not doing very well.

That is too broad of a contention: if some sets of rules are counterproductive, does that mean that, therefore, counterproductivity is intrinsic to any set of rules? You have over-extrapolated.

It's plain to see that egalitarianism and individual rights, the bedrock of Western social frameworks, have yeilded the greatest rewards (not perfect of course, but relative to other systems, more perfect).

The more matrilineal (fatherless, fatherhood de-emphasized) society becomes, the less it becomes about legitimate Constitutional rights, and the more it becomes about what groups like NOW want.

I don't think you'd want to have your hands tied behind your back and hope someone else fulfills their social role to "protect" you.

The road that the NOW crowd has set America on is the worst road that America could be on. I offer something better. What I want is a better, more concrete and reliable set of contracts governing the transactions between men and women than the patricidal feminist subjective hogstwaddle that is encoded in law and case law now.

I want every fit father in this nation to know that his kids will live with him whether they were concieved and/or born pre-maritally, extramaritally, maritally, maritally followed by divorce, or postmaritally. I want an end to all involuntary transfers of wealth, assets, and property from men to women.

What do you want? Not in the sense of wanting to see everyone love and respect each other; in the sense of on-paper, concrete public policy.

???

511 posted on 10/30/2002 7:23:51 PM PST by Z in Oregon
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To: Z in Oregon
Lorianne:"Look at all of the societies that prosper today vs. those which don't." Uh, can you name one that does? If you're planning on saying the USA, can you honestly say that the USA is prosperous in terms of intact families, society's most critical barometer, vs. 50 years ago?

50 years ago is the barometer. It represented a patriarchal system with intact families and a period of exceptional growth and prosperity.

535 posted on 10/31/2002 6:40:22 AM PST by right2parent
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To: Z in Oregon
patricidal feminist subjective hogstwaddle

Very good description.

536 posted on 10/31/2002 6:42:58 AM PST by right2parent
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To: Z in Oregon
I want equity. Trading one dictator for another is not the answer. I think we would agree on many child custody reforms. I am a proponent of RPJPC over sole custody, no matter which one gets sole custody. I believe parenting one's offspring is a OBLIGATION, not a "right". If we reformed our laws to reflect the obligation of both parents, I believe kids would be better off, society would be better off, and as a by-product, there would probably be fewer divorces.

But even if there were the same number of divorces, we can still do a better job of ensuring parents meet their obligations to the offspring THEY brought into being. It's the least they can do and we should enforce it, not only with laws but with changing our entire mindsets and cultural attitudes about parenting from "rights" to "obligation".

540 posted on 10/31/2002 10:24:06 AM PST by Lorianne
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