Why Men Won't Commit: Men's Atitudes About Sex, Dating and Marriage

National Marriage Project (Rutgers University) ^ | 2002 | Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe

[Z in Oregon]

Fred Reed wrote a great article about feminists demonizing men...

...in buildings built and designed by men

...on television, which was invented by men

...wearing clothes from companies run by men

...wearing jewelry given to them by men

...driving in cars and talking on the phone, both of which were invented by men

The list could go on forever.

The irony is obvious.

Check out Fred's articles here

[SauronOfMordor]

The women I have dated have been attractive, educated, and intelligent. They've also told me in great detail about the "jerks" they dated before. So they had opportunities to make things work out, but I can see what's happened. He wasn't "good enough", she was just so excited about X who was married, he was too "boring", she didn't want "to commit", whatever. Now, though, that they've been frightened by the calendar I'm supposed to make it all right. And I'm the "jerk" now if I don't commit right away!

Makes me think of a story:

The Perfect Man A woman decided to go on a quest for the perfect man. In her neighborhood and in her circle of friends, were many men who were fairly handsome, who had decent jobs, and who were gentlemen. But they were not perfect, so she kept looking.

After many years of searching for him, she finally found the perfect man walking down the street. She went up to him and stopped him. She excitedly started telling him about how long she had been looking for him and how glad she was to finally find him.

After a minute, he interrupted her and said, "Excuse me, I'm sorry, but I can’t stay. You see, I'm on a quest, searching for the perfect woman".

And he continued on his way.

[Lilly]

re: post #119

Aren't you over-dramatizing your point? I made my thoughts in my posts very clear. I hate no man. I have no hate in me. None. Can you, and everyone else here understand that? Why has this ruffled so many feathers here? I don't understand how anyone can be so unaware to these facts of past history, and present ills of society. I know there are decent men of past and present, and I enjoy knowing some of them. There is no hate in me. I hope you will come to accept/take my word for it.

[Z in Oregon]

Do you wonder why so many people have the exact same read of your original comments?

[Lilly]

I did go back and read it. And I think when I said "why would any women..." I was speaking too much from my circle of friends, relatives, and shouldn't have included that. But as far as being honest about the realities of past/present societal issues, I don't understand why I ruffled so many feathers. And especially here at FR. Am I not conveying my thoughts well?

[Skywalk]

You mentioned in your initial post that you wouldn't let any man into your life as you have a son. Before that you had listed all the evils that men do, but THEN you turn around and mention these "male friends" of yours.

Um, maybe I'm whacked out, but why aren't you romantically involved or try to be with any of these high-quality men that are friends of yours??!!

I don't quite understand what's keeping you from being with someone in a committed relationship if you know all these good men. If your friends are married or not attractive(though at a certain age, these standards have GOTTA change) then surely these high-quality men have high-quality friends???

[Z in Oregon]

... and present ills of society...

Such as public schools which indoctrinate instead of educate?

Such as tens of millions of abortions?

Such as rampant divorce and broken homes? Such as the increased drug use, and promiscuity, and gang violence amongst teenagers from broken homes?

Intriguingly, none of those problems trace back to men.

Nor does the "gender gap" that got Bill Clinton elected twice.

[Skywalk]

Zing!!

I'll conceded that when men are evil, they are truly EVIL, and tend to be more violent, but to ignore female flaws is the height of sexism AND damages relationships between men and women.

[fish70]

*****I am a 53 year old professional, divorced since 1981, no dependents. Near as I can tell, modern woman's idea of Mr. Right is unemployed, alcoholic, addicted to cocaine, out on parole, married to someone else, that beats them up.*****

Amen Brother.

[Lilly]

Point well taken. And I certainly agree.
On a lighter note, let me ask you; do you know who Monty Python are/is?

From what little I know about Feminists/Men Haters, they would not give a wooden nickel to purchase any of their old skits, movies. On the contrary, despite many of their flagrant sexists jokes, etc. etc. I and my son find them HILARIOUS! They are 6 (well, now 5) men who I just adore! I absolutely adore their wit, humor, and intelligence!

[Z in Oregon]

Bad men are physically stronger and usually have more access to weapons than bad women. There's "history". However, it isn't a matter of fundamental character. There are as many bad/evil women as there are bad/evil men: exactly the same number! How so? The causes of evil do not discriminate between men and women.

"Adam! Bite this apple!"

[fish70]

I thought I had. She left.

[Lilly]

LOL!....Too bad Eve's not around for a good slap up-side the head!

I appreciate your patience, and your conversing with me Z. Be well.

[longtermmemmory]

When women resort to being nasty in a fight (any fight) they have no morals or hesitation. In my profession I saw two women literally destroy themselves with name calling and outright lies. To hold that women have a "civilizing" effect on men is a load of rubbish. The family unit had a civilizing effect on men women and all society. It is the constant throughout human history.

Thankfully there are more than a few good women on this planet and more than a few good men for those women. The feminist have brought out the worst in both women and men. If has given us a culture where weakness is rewarded and strength of character is reviled.

The feminist movement has allowed women to be "strong and independet" but in divorce the law still has them as weak and dependent. Women are permitted their women's studies, women's clubs, female political movements, but men are not even allowed to play a silly game of golf without a bull pestering them.

Am I upset? no, just found a neat opportunity to rant. Can I do anything? I vote. I serve on juries when asked.

What would help? I would say sealing divorce records as a matter of course. This would eliminate the "litigation by embarasment". (Opposing counsel who put tantilizing accusations in court records for effect.) Eliminate the marriage penalty now! Reward marriage.

We also have to have an honest evaluation of the problems. No blame, no "men are evil/women are evil". We are beyond the point of blame we need to identify the exact problems. Then we also have to want to fix them and realize many "womyns" groups will scream like banshees every step of the way.

If the homosexuals can make it a thoughtcrime to say bad things about their diviant sex they we can make it a thought crime not to have proper manners and not to have disparagment of fatherhood and motherhood. (ie: open the door for her. BE GRACIOUS when he does)

ok sorry for the rant, aaaaah cofeee.

[Utilizer]

"When I told her, I was not interested because she had a kid, she said I was being selfish. No I just did not want someone else's mistake even if it meant not pursuing what seemed like an otherwise nice woman."

"Being a single mom means you are a mother first and a girlfriend 112th on the priority scale. Not with my life not with my money. I will make my own "mistakes" before I take care of someone elses."

Agreed.

I do wish to become involved with someone, but am not enthusiastic if they already have a child. This is not to say that it will always be that way, as I believe that it is a possibility with the right individual. It is simply that with a child already included as part of the package, the difficulties of making the relationship work are increased tremendously. Too, if it does not work out, and you have become involved with the child, what rights do you have to continue to see him/her? My experience is: none whatsoever. It seems to Me that the woman is holding all the cards in that area, and the heartache involved in the breakup of the relationship is all the more difficult because you have absolutely NO rights as far as the child is concerned. Is it any wonder we males are so reluctant?

[Utilizer]

"Why would any man miss somebody like this? This suggests these men have reied to talk themselves into a poor bargain because women of any caliber and decencency are not in sufficience abundance."

Perhaps. But sometimes, simply because one partner has ceased to care does not necessarily translate into 'neither one cares'.

[goldstategop]

In other words, if you can milk the cow for free, why buy it? A guy would be crazy to marry a woman he's not sure wants to have a real lifetime commitment from him. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for marriage but in this day and age it makes sense to wait for the right partner to avoid falling into one of those 50% marriages that after five years leave you worse off than when you married in the first place. No wonder men won't commit; its just too risky getting married if its not gonna last past the five year hump.

[ctonious]

Your son's name wouldn't be "Cary" or "Carrie", would it?
- ctonious -

Not at all. Why do you ask? Carrie sounds like a girl's name.

Thought you might have been inspired by the movie. You sound just like Carrie's mother.

[Utilizer]

"The reasons are not obvious. At some time in your young life you are going to need to defecate or get off the pot."

??? I am a bit confused. What part of My post gave you the impression that I was not looking for a relationship, and eventual marriage? That seems to be the inference I pick up from your reply.

[Utilizer]

"When women resort to being nasty in a fight (any fight) they have no morals or hesitation. In my profession I saw two women literally destroy themselves with name calling and outright lies."

This has been My experience as well. During the aftermath of a major relationship in My past, which eventually involved the courts, the woman would outright lie and fabricate allegations and incidents. Unfortunately, the position of the court-appointed mediator was that "when two people give differing accounts, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle."

My immediate response was "So if she makes a false statement and I am entirely truthful, does she not come out ahead?"