VT Christian Homeschooling Mom Taken Away In Shackles!

The Curmudgeon: A Vermont Newsletter | 10/17/02 | Cindy Wade

[Spiff]

Neither of us are "hung up" on any one thing about h.s. but both have many legitimate questions about it. Both recognize the traits of the "true believer" who just pretends that any questions are attacks and all questioners are enemies. This is the response in spades from the True Believers here.

Bulls**t. Nobody except for your fellow jackboot lickers is buying your crap. Oh yeah, you've really been the model of unbiased inquiry in your "legitimate questions". The only "True Believers" here are you and the rest of your state-worshipping comrades.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You will not find any statement I have made that no parent should homeschool. However, I will definitely say that most should not because they don't have the capacity to be a teacher or sufficient knowledge. Deciding you want to home school does not make one an efficient effective teacher.

Some people could be adequate teachers with a high school education and some could not with a Ph.D. I find it incredibly arrogant that many here will argue that they can teach every subject. This disdain for intellectual depth is beyond arrogant it is madness.

Most of the reforms you mention are long needed. It is not a healthy suspicion of government that I see on h.s. threads (and those dealing with child welfare events), it is hysterical lying about what actually happens when governments have to get involved to stop the destruction of children by parents. No hideousness is too hideous not to have the amen chorus braying in full voice against the "jackbooted thugs", the "gestapo", the "stormtroopers" etc.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Care to explain what would happen to the economy if 10 million families decide to quit work and home school, oh enlightened one? Or did the diploma by mail program not include the concept of "opportunity costs?"

Incurring the wrath of the ignorant and foolish is always a pleasant prospect for me. And I don't have to wipe the flying spittel from my face. So keep it up.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Oh, and you don't have to buy my crap. I'll give to you for free.:^)

[Liberty Teeth]

"Deciding you want to home school does not make one an efficient effective teacher."

Deciding you want to be a Publik skooL teecher duz not make one an effishent effective teecher neither.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/517752/posts

"The Sun-Times found that teachers who struggled to pass their exams can pop up anywhere. Last school year, those who needed at least four tries to pass a single certification test were teaching children in a North Shore junior high, a Palatine special-education classroom and a Hoffman Estates high school.

But the state's neediest children--those in the lowest-scoring, highest-minority and highest-poverty schools--are roughly five times more likely to encounter teachers who stumbled in efforts to pass the tests. And Chicago public school students are 3-1/2 times more likely than suburban ones to have such a teacher."

Didn't you say you were from Illinois? Maybe you should become a teacher?

[Spiff]

Care to explain what would happen to the economy if 10 million families decide to quit work and home school, oh enlightened one? Or did the diploma by mail program not include the concept of "opportunity costs?"

I've never proposed that all parents should homeschool. Show me where I did that, idiot. Instead, the state monopoly on education should be ended. Private schools and commercial schools would prosper and competititon between them would lower costs and boost results. Those who can't afford to pay for their children to attend these public (but not state-run) schools can find church-sponsored charity schools or privately funded scholarships.

But, again, you put economic practicality above capitalism and individual freedom. You seem to think that it is a natural state for both parents to work - when it is not. Only under the oppressive taxation levels have we required dual-earner families. The societal price we pay when we keep mothers out of the home and let day care centers and state-run institutions raise our children is immeasurable.

Incurring the wrath of the ignorant and foolish is always a pleasant prospect for me. And I don't have to wipe the flying spittel from my face. So keep it up.

Being called "ignorant and stupid" by elitist frauds and jackboot-lickers like you is a badge of honor. I'm so stupid I don't even think the state owns me or my children like you and your fellow travellers - Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc.

[EternalVigilance]

Jefferson's idea of "Eternal Vigiliance" was to destroy the nation's military capacity so carefully built up by Washington and Hamilton. His idea of "eternal vigilance" was to eliminate the U.S. Navy and not protect our merchant marine.

I repeat. You are nuts.

[justshutupandtakeit]

The article you posted is a valid example of some of the problems faced by the public school system in Chicago. But the reality is it is very difficult to get qualified teachers to come to the central city because of the idiot parents and criminality they have to deal with. The inundation of welfare dependent children makes it difficult to find schools with sufficient discipline to allow children to get an education.

If I were a teacher someone would probably get killed and it might be me because I wouldn't put up with any crap from kids just as I wouldn't with my boys. They would have to increase the pay to six figures before I would even consider it. I see Barb work all weekend and come home exhausted at seven and am too lazy to do the same. And my late wife, who had the energy of a dynamo, did the same. I don't have that much love to do it.

[Liberty Teeth]

"The inundation of welfare dependent children makes it difficult to find schools with sufficient discipline to allow children to get an education."

Maybe after school Boot Camp will help resolve this challenge? Tax payer funded of course.

[EternalVigilance]

If I were a teacher someone would probably get killed and it might be me because I wouldn't put up with any crap from kids just as I wouldn't with my boys. They would have to increase the pay to six figures before I would even consider it. I see Barb work all weekend and come home exhausted at seven and am too lazy to do the same. And my late wife, who had the energy of a dynamo, did the same. I don't have that much love to do it.

So, you're impatient, driven my money, lazy and unloving...does that sum it up pretty good?

There are hundreds of thousands of homeschools being operated in this country right now, and thank goodness the vast majority of them are being run by parents without all of that baggage.

I know scores of them, and those particular parents are marked as a group as being patient, self-sacrificing, and diligent in their labor of love. Their children are the cream of the crop...the hope for our county's future.

Later.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Yes, I am impatient with fools and idiots who think they know something when they don't.

I would drive your money if I could but a Honda Civic is not my style.

Lazy yeah. That why I spend so much time on FR talking to others just as lazy like you.

Unloving. Yeah, I only love marvelous, beautiful, intelligent women so most of the world can't make the grade.

Oh, yeah I will bet that at least some are taught by people who know their right foot from their left. You should take some classes with them.

Yeah, I am holding my breath until they do. NOT.

[justshutupandtakeit]

My solution is orphanages as was done in days past.

[Spiff]

Unloving. Yeah, I only love marvelous, beautiful, intelligent women so most of the world can't make the grade.

You're such a fraud. The only "marvelous, beautiful women" you're with are wooden dummies.

Just like these dummies:

Look familiar?

[Anij]

G'morning justshutupand take it! :) (Interesting handle BTW).

You said, QUOTE: "You will not find any statement I have made that no parent should homeschool. However, I will definitely say that most should not because they don't have the capacity to be a teacher or sufficient knowledge. Deciding you want to home school does not make one an efficient effective teacher.

Some people could be adequate teachers with a high school education and some could not with a Ph.D. I find it incredibly arrogant that many here will argue that they can teach every subject. This disdain for intellectual depth is beyond arrogant it is madness." END QUOTE.


I've been following this thread, and you make one erroneous assumption which I would like to address, if you will allow me that.

As a parent who has "educated" (along with my husband of course) all of our children at home using the "UNSCHOOLING" method (which is statistically by far the most successful method), I am here to tell you that PARENTS DO *NOT* NEED TO UNDERSTAND *EVERYTHING* THEIR CHILD LEARNS.

Think about this for a minute.

Sure, y'have to be able to give your kids a good *basic* education, which can be done in an informal way (we have yet to purchase a "desk" or like that and never will) which the kids will thrive on, and so will their NATURAL LOVE of knowledge.

Kids are *loaded* with curiosity and you just have to be available to turn that curiosity into *opportunities* for them to learn everything they need to know about life, as far as their time with you permits.

Again, I will use the example of our youngest daughter (now just turned 14, and who earned her High School Diploma with a 97.1% grade average about a year ago), who I feel is fairly typical of Home Educated kids.

In many areas, she knows a great deal more about many subjects that I know, or care to know. She READS and LEARNS about things which interest HER these days, and some of those things don't particularly interest me, and so I never studied them in my youth. Consequently, she oftentimes tells me fascinating things about a variety of subjects, which I just never knew. One of the most common phrases around our house is "Hey mom (or dad), did you know *this?*" ;)

Now, we taught her to read, to count, and saw to it that she had a basic education. Our work is such that we traveled a lot, and we watched out for what interested her and our other kids (we still do this) and then made sure they had a fertile learning environment to explore each subject that they were interested in. We still do THAT too.

However, it would be unreasonable to expect that either her father or I would be interested in or know in advance about ALL THE DIVERSE subjects that all of our children have learned exhaustively about.

THEY LEARN ON THEIR OWN after a while.

It doesn't take long, (obviously) to take them through what they need to ace the subjects that are required to get a High School Diploma. After that though, there are still many years left at home, and for them MANY subjects and experiences they wish to put themselves into. We encourage that in all our children (even the ones who are no longer living at home), but by the time they have passed the High School Diploma stage, they are obviously going to be delving deeply into other subjects/areas which I or my husband *may* know little or even (horrors) nothing about, until our child comes home and tells us about this or that "neat" thing they've learned.

We require that each of our children keep a daily journal, and that they read it to us every day (except on weekends). We learn through what they write in their journals just what they ARE exploring at any given moment, and their thoughts about things, and how they see the world. Thus, we are always on top of what they are studying, even if we aren't experts in each area ourselves.

We are always there for them, and oftentimes are called upon to help them RESEARCH something which they can't quite grasp for whatever reason, and to be truthful, it sometimes takes both my husband AND I looking at the material to come up with some helpful suggestions for our children.

These kids are into some pretty heavy learning in a lot of different areas, and so we don't have a chance to let our own brains atrophy, LOL, since we are always being challenged somewhat by the interests of our children.

The bottom line here?

If you can read, write, and count; find your way around a map of the world and have even a *basic* understanding of history, geography, and current events, YOU CAN TEACH YOUR CHILDREN! I don't care if you were the bottom of the class at your Public School! (Think Einstein here!). This has all been well documented and proven time and time again.

It has been my experience that there are very few people who *can't* teach their children, though there are very many who *think* they can't.

I think *wanting* to Home Educate is probably the most important qualification you need.

One more rather important point. I see here that many people mistakenly think they have to quit work, buy a desk and recreate a "school" environment in order to Home Educate their children. Nothing could be further from the truth.

We traveled the world (almost) while we were educating our children, but even if we'd never left home we would have simply kept them *with* us all the time. THAT'S the *key.* We attended all their sports events, soccer games, ballet classes, horse riding lessons, swimming and skating lessons etc., etc. ad infinitum. They had plenty of opportunity to *socialize,* - a common concern of those who haven't yet Home Educated but would like to.

If I was grocery shopping, *THEY* were grocery shopping. A great way to teach them reading skills, math, budgeting, proper stewardship, where things come from (Social Studies), all about ingredients and what they are and what they do, and why we buy one thing but not another and so on and so on.

If my husband was out chopping wood, - so were they. If we were gardening (we like to grow most of our own food), so were they. If we were cleaning house, so were they. Likewise if we were cooking, canning, fixing the car, playing musical instruments, balancing the chequebook, paying bills, doing volunteer work in the community, evangelizing, having a Bible Study, visiting/caring for the sick or elderly, hunting, fishing, building a log cabin, - you name it, - if we did it, they did it. The result is a bunch of kids who left home pretty adept at most things prior to being totally responsible for said things themselves.

Sorry this post is so long, but it's just so easy to keep your kids with you and let them learn *your* value system, and give them a GOD-centered education that I hate to read posts where parents don't feel they can do this. Especially when the truth is, practically anyone can!

Shabbat shalom, - Anij.

[xandy]

Great post! I too believe in an unschooling approach. None of the busy, in one ear long enought to test-then out again for my kids! What they are "learning" they are actually learning! At the moment I'm reading "A Mind at a Time", Mel Levine. He states the obvious fact that soooo much of what kids "learn" at school is a total waste of time and that it's ridiculous to expect kids to be masters of all subjects (the way schools do), none of us expect adults to do this! We respect adult's differences, strengths and KNOW that they have a wide variety of interests. If all adults were required to attend the local PS, for even one year, and be treated the same/do the same meaningless grunt work that kids are expected to do (for 13 years), pS would be dead in no time!
Again, Thanks for a great, thoughtful, enlightening (at least I hope so for some here) post!

[RGSpincich]

Mrs. O'Dell's children were taken forcefully from her and are now living in trailer parks with their foster families!

You never answered the question. Where are the three missing fathers? Four children fathered by three different fathers and not one of them Mr. O'Dell. Last names are Veach, Thompson and Cameron.

The O'Dell family is NOT on welfare.

Mr. O'Dell is on state disability.

The O'Dell's do have a limited income but they own their property free and clear of any mortgage payments, unlike nearly every college graduate I know.

But the "property" amounts to a junkyard that must be cleared and utilities must be installed. And that's before the brand new used mobile home is towed into place.

Interesting how the bankruptcy and the house burning down coincided.

[RGSpincich]

From Cindy Wade or Truant Mom -

Here

On Monday, October 7 Patricia was cited into court on charges of 'impeding an officer' and 'custodial interference' as a result of the Friday, September 13 SRS, state & local police raid on her mother's home without a search warrant. This action was taken because Patricia was homeschooling her four children. The VT DOE had informed her in December 2001 that she wasn't 'allowed' to send in an enrollment for this year or next. Patricia eventually moved out of state to Connecticut and returned to Vermont in May 2002. She was visiting her very ill mother in Bennington on the day of the raid but was living at the Ladd Brook Motel in Pownal, VT with her husband and children. In a nutshell Patricia is in jail for homeschooling her children.

Parental rights are not lost on the spur of a moment because of a home study plan. The children must have been taken away from the legal custodial parents by Ms. O'Dell(possibly in Conneticut). She abducted at least one of the kids from the real custodial parent or other legal guardian. That is why she was arrested for "custodial interference". In a "nutshell" Patricia is in jail because she abducted four children who did not belong with her.

You will notice that no SRS hearings are scheduled, or reported as scheduled, that's because custody has already been established.

From the Vermont statute:

§ 2451. Custodial interference

(a) A person commits custodial interference by taking, enticing or keeping a child from the child's lawful custodian, knowingly, without a legal right to do so, when the person is a relative of the child and the child is less than eighteen years old.

(b) A person who commits custodial interference shall be imprisoned not more than five years or fined not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(c) It shall be a defense to a charge of keeping a child from the child's lawful custodian that the person charged with the offense was acting in good faith to protect the child from real and imminent physical danger. Evidence of good faith shall include, but is not limited to, the filing of a non-frivolous petition documenting that danger and seeking to modify the custodial decree in a Vermont court of competent jurisdiction. This petition must be filed within 72 hours of the termination of visitation rights. This defense shall not be available if the person charged with the offense has left the state with the child. (Added 1979, No. 149 (Adj. Sess.), § 1, eff. April 24, 1980.)

Looks to me like the kids went back to their legal parents. Or at least some did. The others were removed from the clutches of a child abductor. Cindy Wade tried to play this as a Christian Homeschooling issue, it is not. This is a custody issue or rather lack of legal custody by O'Dell. Patricia O’Dell probably removed the kids from the various fathers’ care. Remember that there are three absent fathers. Mr. Veach is the father of two of the children, Mr. Cameron and Mr. Thompson fathered one child each. Ray O’Dell, Patricia O'Dell's husband, is not the father of any of the children.

This whole thing is a sham. If anybody’s rights have been violated, the fathers’ rights have been violated. The Christian Homeschool angle was used to sucker in the feeble of mind. How does it feel to be used Spiff, Eternal Vigilance and the rest?

[Roscoe]

The Christian Homeschool angle was used to sucker in the feeble of mind.

She caught a few, but what good are they? They can't help her and they wouldn't if they could.

[Catspaw]

Ah, yes, it smells like another attempt to make a martyr out of someone who isn't even the custodial parent of these children. Ware & her crowd are shameless about it, aren't they?

[RGSpincich]

They can't help her and they wouldn't if they could.

Christine Legal Defense Fund - $76. and holding.