[r9etb]

For the record, I reject the premise.

I do, too. However, one commonly hears that there are no contemporary non-Christian refrences to Jesus, and some folks consider that to be proof that Jesus was fictional.

IF this story is true, then that line of argument dries up and blows away. Of course, then the topic shifts to whether this actual human, Jesus, was actually God.

[wastoute]

To require "firsthand evidence" of an event that occurred 2000 years ago goes far beyond what authorites require for other antiquities. Do you believe Homer wrote the Iliad? Do you believe Herodotus wrote the Histories? Do you reqlize there is FAR MORE evidence that Jesus lived for either of the above. Would you agree that there is firsthand evidence that the Gospels existed and every word of the New Testament as well by 326 A.D.?

Of course you would, because you realize that there are a dozen parchment Codex copies extant. So for these documents to have existed 300 years later, there HAD to be some antecedent activity that led to their production. The fact that these documents still exist and are identical to the current copies of the Bible, and that earlier documents have been found which are identical with portions of the codex bear "firsthand evidence" that you require. When Luke writes "We SAW these things" you are GIVEN firsthand evidence. His claims have been the same in all of the above documents. Hence, YOU ARE GIVEN FIRSTHAND EVIDENCE. If you wish to deny it, that is your perogative, but what you have is "firsthand evidence."

[Dataman]

one commonly hears that there are no contemporary non-Christian refrences to Jesus

It ain't true.

[razorbak]

Read the works of Josephus you idiots. This contemp. account of Jesus has been available since the time of Jesus.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>...one commonly hears that there are no contemporary non-Christian refrences to Jesus, and some folks consider that to be proof that Jesus was fictional.<<<

The Jews believe Jesus existed, but they do not believe he was the Messiah.

[Lloyd227]

"Of course, then the topic shifts to whether this actual human, Jesus, was actually God"

Are you certain you did not intend to type "...was actually the Son of God" ?

[noah]

This argument needs to be put to rest. Heathen testimonies to Jesus are few and meagre, but they are NOT, nonexistent. Philip Schaff discusses them in History of the Christian Church VolI, pp.90-100 and following.
The oldest heathen testimony is probably the Syriac letter of Mara, a philosopher, to his son Serapion, about A.D. 74.
He asks,
"For what benefit did the Athenians obtain by puttung Socrates to death,...Or the people of Samos by the burning of Pythagoras, ...Or the Jews by the murder of their Wise King,...?
The Anti_Nicene Fathers,eds. Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson, T&T Clatk, Edinburgh.Vol. VIII, P. 737.