Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals

Vanity | Self

[SamAdams76]

The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.

Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.

The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.

Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.

Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?

[McGavin999]

Is it worth an accidental death for those odds? I don't think so.

Gee, I must have missed the part about someone getting accidently shot. The only shooting I heard about was the one where someone was coming out of a restaurant with his wife, and then one where a wife got shot putting packages into her trunk, and the one where the kid was shot just going to school, and the one where the guys was shot putting gas into his car, and the one.........well, you get the message.

[McGavin999]

LOL, well, threads just sort of degenerate. They should actually be allowed to die a graceful death. At one point all the arguements have been made so many times that it's just a waste of bandwidth.

I don't know about you but I'm going back out onto the forum and look for something fresh.

[Velveeta]

I honestly don't know, just that *one* guy out of "many hundreds" was cuffed.

[Mamzelle]

Who's the guy on the ground? I'd like to hear more of the circumstances that put him there. "Hands in the Air" ( the other picture) is a reasonable thing to demand under the circumstances. Even drunks are expected to show empty hands. But cuffing someone on the ground...there'd better be good reason for putting him there.

[Velveeta]

Was he the guy who was driving with his lights off?

Don't know.

[FormerLurker]

As a space systems professional, I can honestly say that no GEO bird sees people on earth. Of course, there are plenty of LEO birds that can.

I've worked with GOES data that I could "zoom in" to a fairly high degree, where I could actually see cities. And that is just weather satellite data from a bird that was meant to show cloud cover. I would imagine that by now we might have something a bit more powerful that would be in a geosynchronous orbit. We would also have image enhancement software capable of compensating for atmospheric jitter.

Of course, nobody would ever know if there WAS in fact something like that up there, as it would be classified..

[justshe]

So if someone uses the term 'cop basher' you use a moral equivalence logic when you refer to people as 'sheeple' and worse?

Seems like the mote in your eye is fairly large, in this instance.

[palmer]

Maybe their guns aren't loaded like at the airport. But if they are, I would rather take my chances with the sniper than have officers with loaded weapons pointed at me. Not that you care but I've had the former happen, stopping for gas across the street from the Manassas shooting a week earlier, shopping at Microcenter, etc.

As pointed out earlier, accidents happen and they are made more probable with every vehicle check at gunpoint.

[cidrasm]

You are correct, we do have LEOsat birds with very good optics, however due to the nature of their orbit, they cannot remain on station for the duration you would require. Add to that the need for clear air (clouds really mess up satty pictures), and the limited field of view you get as you zoom in to get more detail and you would be better off using UAVs which can loiter a lot cheaper and at lower altitudes with the ability to have their payload retasked rather quickly.

The bulk of your idea is sound IMO. Just my $0.02

[FormerLurker]

Sounds simple and logical in theory, but is it really and if so then why the h*ll aren't they doing that? And do we know that they aren't?

If they can, they may not decide to do so as they would never be able to produce the evidence in court, as it would probably be Top Secret.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"How likely is it that a roadblock will catch the shooter? I'd say 1 in a 100"

Good question, and the answer so far is 0 in, what, 5 roadblocks so far?

[takenoprisoner]

Typical drivers of white vans with ladder racks represent the working class of this nation. They are the men and women of this nation who do the actual constructing or the repairs of things many of us can't, or simply don't have the time to do for ourselves. It is my contention that the choice of this 'workin man's van' is a pyschological as well as a tactical ploy by a cast of terrorists. Needless to say, they anticipated the scenes portrayed here. Tactifully they have succeeded in making the workin man a suspect to be treated as such til detailed scrutiny redeems him/her. Pyschologically, they have succeeded in associating terrorism with the workin man.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"Of course, nobody would ever know if there WAS in fact something like that up there, as it would be classified.."

Classified, but not much of a secret. ;> I have worked with several of such systems, and none would be of much use here. What is needed is the aircraft idea of something that can be stationed over the area for days on end. Of course, that would also require multiple birds to keep watch over the entire area. The Army aircraft in play can do this, but there are not enough of them. If they catch the shot in action they can track the shooter. Systems such as JSTARS were went for war, but can also be of help here.

There are also other counter-sniper system available, but, again, I am not so sure that there are enough of them to cover the entire area these nuts are operating within.

[GirlShortstop]

So if someone uses the term 'cop basher' you use a moral equivalence logic when you refer to people as 'sheeple' and worse?

WRONG. You are not doing a thorough job on your reading.    You can find accuracy if you look for it.

Seems like the mote in your eye is fairly large    <~oxymoron

[FormerLurker]

Add to that the need for clear air (clouds really mess up satty pictures), and the limited field of view you get as you zoom in to get more detail and you would be better off using UAVs which can loiter a lot cheaper and at lower altitudes with the ability to have their payload retasked rather quickly

But would a UAV be able to capture a region as large as that covered by the sniper? Just a rhetorical question, don't give any details if you DO know...

The bulk of your idea is sound IMO. Just my $0.02

Thanks. I'd say IF we have the capability, we should use it here. Of course, that decision needs to be made by those who have the authority to make that sort of decision...

[PatrioticAmerican]

"Careful where you throw stones ;~D"

LOL! That actually is a defining statement of FR.

[bvw]

Hooray for you!

So many chicken-$#1t-littles crying that

the sky is falling, therefore hamstring us all good G-man! Therefore pen us all in lil' gitmos. Or rather just those guys in the white vans. That's ok! Make their life miserable!

We can't be happy until everyone's a victim.

Oh good G-man, oh good DC Deputy, arrest them all! Throw them all to the ground and make havoc of their days!

No chick-little is ever safe -- sales of prozak-like drugs must be skyrocketing.

[palmer]

That's just counting the large weapon waving roadblocks after the shootings. I've seen lots of white vans pulled over on non-shooting days as well but not seen weapons in those cases. It defies common sense in either case.

[cidrasm]

The short answer is yes, by using multiple flights.

It would be nice if this idea was employed, and it would also give plenty of training time for the troops that normally employ these assets.

[FormerLurker]

It would be able to read the fine print on my cell phone agreement.

I wonder if they've ever experimented to determine what the HST would see if it was pointed down towards the Earth...