Posted on 10/18/2002 8:39:36 PM PDT by jaime1959
Regular use of spetsnaz (operative groups) as a preventive measure has been a local initiative in N.Novgorod region since 1992. Alongside with establishing LPUs (local-preventive zone) spetsnaz was widely used for suppression and threatening prisoners to the end of 1994.
Using spetsnaz was a planned event aimed at "confiscating illegal things" in accordance with order #267 of Ministry of Home Affairs.
More than 20 complaints from 10 ITUs of Nizhny Novgorod region on unlawful actions of spetsnaz were received. NNSHR members and regional Council deputy Vinokurov Y. L. made site visits and verified these facts. Information on cruel treatment, beatings, unlawful use of special means, damage of personal things and, in particular cases, torture on the part of spetsnaz officers was confirmed.
All the information from prisoners on unlawful actions including physical injuries inflicted by officers of spetsnaz in ITK-1, ITK-4 on June 4, 1992, in ITK-6 on June 25, July 20-23, 1992; in ITK-12 on June 2, 1992; in ITK-20 in August, 1992 and March 29, 1994 was almost completely confirmed. In some cases unlawful actions of spetsnaz were confirmed by ITU staff (UZ-62/4, 7, 12). In two cases the Procuracy instituted legal proceedings but later dismissed the cases.
So called "searching events" usually arranged by spetsnaz in punishment cells and LPUs should be especially considered. Searching prisoners spetsnaz officers drive them out of their cells. Meanwhile, they beat prisoners, use special means (clubs, dogs, gas) and damage personal things. Any protests are cut rudely.
Having finished their "job" (as it was, for example, in UZ #62/20) spetsnaz employees make prisoners write statements that they have no claims against spetsnaz actions. Prisoners are often punished when they apply for medical confirmation of their injuries.
The use of spetsnaz in ITK-4 on January 29, 1993 can serve as a typical pattern of resorting to spetsnaz help. This day prisoners in PKT and ShIZO went on hunger strike to menefest their protest which was supported by the majority of prisoners the next day. To suppress the inmates spetsnaz started beating them using special means. According to official information one prisoner being severely injured was sent to the prison hospital, according to prisoners' evidence there were three of them. Eye witnesses reported that all protesters had been beaten to various extent and some of them tortured. Some soldiers from the ITK's guarding troops also were injured.
From prisoners' letters:
"Spetsnaz soldiers came equipped with landing knives and began beating and torturing ShIZO and PKT inmates. They beat them with their legs and clubs, strangled with a towel until a man got unconscious and then poured cold water on him. They did it like this: ask the article, the term of imprisonment and then started beating. Several people had been beaten till they got unconscious and then got their heads sunk in the open toilet..."
"They also used a "Chinese" torture throwing a prisoner on the table and beating him with a club on the heels. Also, they forced a man to make the splits beating him. They came in, asked inmates who would clean the floor and those who refused were driven in the corridor and beaten. Having thrown a prisoner on the floor and holding his hands and legs they stood on his back or chest and jumped. Inmates were stripped naked and beaten. Spetsnaz employees stood on the table and beat with their feet on the prisoner’s face. Prisoners are not allowed to report about injuries, either they are not given paper and pens to write a complaint."
"In the evening that day eight spetsnaz soldiers came in accompanied by inspectors. Being heavily drunk spetsnaz soldiers were provoking prisoners." (from the letter signed by 60 prisoners) dated January 29, 1993.
"In the morning after breakfast six or seven people came in, all of them wearing masks, began to beat us. They had been beating us till we fell. After pouring water on us they beat again. Then we were dragged in the cells. Screams were heard in the isolation cell till noon. Later, at about five, they came again. The procedure repeated all over again."
A similar situation happened in ITU-20 (the Lukoyanov town) where on March 29, 1994 a spetsnaz group was brought in according to the plan. During four days "searching and patrol actions" were held. While searching prisoners in PKT, ShiZO and LPU, spetsnaz soldiers beat inmates using special means. This was confirmed by prisoners' evidence. Prisoners reported that they had been beaten mostly on the stomach, chest and on the back of the head. On being threatened prisoners refused to apply for the medical examination.
On May 17, 1994 a spetsnaz group was brought in again. Alongside with search, spetsnaz soldiers made special "working up" of "negatively minded" prisoners calling them one by one to the headquarters of the institution and in the LPU.
Notably, during two-three years of resorting to spetsnaz as "preventive measure", no mass riots or disorders took place in the regional colonies (with the exception of cases being provoked by spetsnaz itself). The practice of such "preventive" use of spetsnaz was stopped only due to considerable public efforts after deputies hearings and appeals to the Governor.
Isn't it Sexist to assume it’s a guy and not a chick?
I also think cutting off a few Islamofacisti heads could be very productive, as long as they are the right heads. bin Laden, or if he's already gone to his reward, his chief deputy, Sadamn, and assorted Ayatollahs in Iraq and whatever they call those Saudi religious police with whips.
Truth, conscious of its purity, blurts out downright things - Lucian
However, I'd say most construction guys are pretty good observers and "trouble-ready".
Kinda reminds you of the Atta incident in the airport parking lot.
Sac
Sac
This then would put the witness in a perfect spot to view the occupants of the "van". The witness may have pulled into the lane, blocking the escaping terrorists lane, having hesitated momentarilly and getting a good look at the perps.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions that this witness is a LIAR.
The lanes in the Home Depot are not one-way.
I'm in small town, don't see much CSI around here. Local LE pretty much covers traffic, ocassional weekend brawl and shop-lifters.
There isn't enough information in any of the Robert Young reports to make any determination whatsoever.
Which lane was he in? Which direction did the "white van" come from? How did it go around the restaurant? Was he near the store, or near the back of the lot? Was this before or after the shot, and by how long?
The HD lot is small and usually crowded (I can't speak for Monday night), and there are frustrations in trying to navigate it and find a space: people parking, people exiting, customers walking in the lanes, or coming out with bulky Home Depot sorts of wares. Personally I always go to the upstairs lot, because it's considerably less difficult than parking downstairs.
So another agitated driver wouldn't surprise me at all. In fact is is quite common there in my experience (this is my local HD).
That this agitated person was "Middle Eastern" is not even relevant given that there is no other information.
It seems to me that if all the witness testimony points to a white van, mexican or ME sighting etc. it should be concluded that these shooting are not from a "white wacko" randomly killing people, but a much more sophisticated, thought-out plan and execution.
If this is a well planned operation, then it is being done by more than one or two wack jobs and it must be a terrorist endeavor.
While we are all listening to these pointy headed professors on TV, the perps, read terrorists, are on their way to a new location like LA or Phoenix or Detroit, where they will join with their brothers and begin another rampage of killing.
Meanwhile, the thinking people of Maryland and VA, are arming themselves at a rate of up to 500% above normal gun purchasing. not giving a sh*t if it is terrorists or whatever.
I'd like to know if the LE who have been stopping all of these white vans are keeping statistics as to the nationality of these drivers.
I believe that a white van is being used as a decoy, while the shooters, who live just a block or so away jump into their black toyota after the shooting and drive to their safe haven and park their cars in a garage. Then they sit and watch TV to see just how effective their plan is working.
I also believe that the shell casing found in the white van was planted, to bring focus back to the various white vans sighted.
These folks, like the 9/11 terrorists, have had many years to establish their locations and planning.
If this is the case, we Americans will have to take care of this situation ourselves. We can not trust the Govt nor police to be able to protect us. We will need to take to the streets and purge the muslim threat ourselves. And this is exactly what the Govt/Police fear most.
My thoughts exactly. And to make people think they left the area. If it's related, I'd say planted.
I do believe you're right about the snipers being in the school parking lot. That's why I think the people who were seen in the HD area have nothing to do with the shooting.
So assuming the driver seen by the construction worker is a ME man/men driving a white van in the HD area, even if he's innocent, he would have to be scared. People could decide he did it and not give him time to prove he's innocent. Furthermore, according to several FReepers, there are lots of ME people in this area. So the chances of ME men driving a white van and shopping at HD is rather high I'd say.
FWIW, I have no idea what the snipers race or the skin color is. And I think they're too far from the crime seen for any witness to be able to tell, at least so far.
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