Posted on 10/18/2002 4:58:13 PM PDT by Brian Mosely
Summary
Islamist militants from scores of countries reportedly convened recently in Bosnia, agreeing to set aside differences and to present a united front in the face of "American-Zionist aggression." Although it is not known whether al Qaeda members were present, such a convention would suggest that militants are feeling the heat from the U.S. anti-terrorism war and are seeking to turn the tide by staging coordinated attacks against the West.
Analysis
Russian and Yugoslav intelligence sources claim that more than 150 Islamic radicals from more than 50 countries held a secret congress in Travnik, Bosnia and Herzegovina, on Oct. 8. Strana.ru, a pro-government Russian media source, issued a similar report, citing "well-informed diplomatic sources."
According to these sources, the Islamists declared jihad on the "European race" -- meaning both Americans and Europeans -- because it has become "the willing slaves of Jews and Israel." Participants also agreed to put aside any conflicts within the Muslim world in order to unite all Islamic forces as soon as possible for "a return strike" in response to "American-Zionist aggression," the sources say. The militants allegedly declared that all means, both legal and illegal, should be used for that purpose.
Although it is unknown whether al Qaeda members were present at the reported meeting, its occurrence would suggest Islamic militants are feeling the heat from the U.S. anti-terrorism war and are trying to turn the tide by staging coordinated attacks. A united front against the United States and its perceived domination in the Muslim world is something Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda have been calling for since the beginning of their struggle against the United States.
And since when were there "thousands" of mujahadeen imported by Al-Quaeda? Again, (and how many times does this make it on just this one thread?) you invent history to suit your own purposes and truth be damned - the majority of foreigners were sponsored by the Iranians, who, though I despair of explaining the matter to you for the umpteenth time, were not allied with Al Quaeda during the time Bosnian war.
It is instructive here to draw a comparison here between you and someone else utilizing your methods - the only thing that separates you from Mathew Dowdy is the fact that he has actually been arrested and charged with obstructing an investigation into a crime and making false statements.
We will fight Al Quaeda where they actually are Destro, not wasting time where you and your infantile smear campaign would have us chasing ghosts and lies.
Either they were imported or the Bosnian Muslims were on the same level as al-Qaeda without any prompting.
How else would you explain this evidence?
CNN wont show Qaida promotional video from Bosnia showing a severed human head rolling through grass
How does one video from an Al Quaeda wanna-be (you've tried this line of lying before, so allow me to refresh your memory) support your 'thousands' claim?
You hope to ignore the struggle between Pakistan and Iran for control of Afghanistan and how that schism was propagated through each nation's proxies abroad and then foist your incomplete understanding and prejudice upon a wider audience.
And when you compose your response, try the truth this time - it would make a nice change of pace for you.
the majority of foreigners were sponsored by the Iranians, who, though I despair of explaining the matter to you for the umpteenth (+1) time, were not allied with Al Quaeda during the time Bosnian war.
Do you pay any attention to our discussions or is the mental strain of corresponding while posting spam ("on message, 24/7") elsewhere on the forum simply too much for you?
How many dead serbs, croats and bosnian muslims in particular did we have during the war in Bosnia? How many times did we see the shelling of Serbian parts of Sarajevo, like Grbavica, on CNN and Amanpour telling the world it's the serbs?
How many times did we see the shelling of Serbian suburbs of Sarajevo on CNN and Amanpour telling the world it's the serbs?
How many dead did we have on each side and how big was the death toll percentage wise on bosnian serbs, croats and muslims?
Again, how many Sarajevo serbs, were amongst the victims of the muslim staged 'Markale' massacre? You can disagree the muslims staged it, but answer it anyways!
"A few days ago Mr. Boutros Ghali informed me that the projectile which hit the Markale marketplace in Sarajevo was an act of (Bosnian) Muslim provocation". President Mitterrand of France, 1995
Discuss this issue with that french guy when you meet him next time, ok!?
The serbs learned a lesson or two from 1941 to 1945 and they were well prepared to oppose the Muslim-Nazi-Coalition in 1992. That's what you are blaming them? They were well prepared to win a war that was forced on them? Jesus!! The drying out of the constitution went on for a long time and it was clear the serbs had to make some emergency plans in that case.
Izetbegovic's goal was independence - Bosnian serbs said not with us - they had the constitution on their side - no seccession was possible without approval of ALL three ethnic groups in Bosnia - Izetbegovic ignored the Bosnian constitution AND the declared will of the Bosnian serbs - Izetbegovic didn't want to grant right to selfdetermination to the bosnian serbs as well in an independent Bosnia- he declared independence - war begun.
You don't want to get it, but I'm not here because of you, but because of other Freepers. They can make up their mind, and you and Alija Izetbegovic, the Osama bin Laden of Bosnia, are a great help for they will make the right decission.
The Islamic Declaration
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Western media presents him as a 'secular' President, but...
THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA MR. ALIJA IZETBEGOVIC IS ISLAM FUNDAMENTALIST
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The following are excerpts from the book "The Islamic Declaration" ("Islamska deklaracija"), written by Mr. Alija Izetbegovic, current President of Bosnia-Herzegovina. The book was reprinted by "BOSNA", Sarajevo, 1990, 127 pages.
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"... Do we want the Muslim nations to cease moving in circles, to stop being dependent, backward and poverty-stricken;
do we want them to once again with a sure step climb the road of dignity and enlightment and to become masters of their own fate;
do we want the springs of courage, genius and virtue to come forth strongly once again;
then we must show the way which leads to that objective:
The implementation of Islam in all fields of individuals' personal lives, in family and in society, by renewal of the Islamic religious thought and creating a uniform Muslim community from Morocco to Indonesia. ..."
p. 3
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"... A nation, and an individual, who has accepted Islam is incapable of living and dying for another ideal after that fact. It is unthinkable for a Muslim to sacrifice himself for any tzar or ruler, no matter what his name may be, or for the glory of any nation, party or some such, because acting on the strongest Muslim instinct he recognizes in this a certain type of godlessness and idolatry. A Muslim can die only with the name of Allah on his lips and for the glory of Islam, or he may run away from the battlefield. ..."
p. 4
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"... Muslim nations will never accept anything that is explicitly against Islam, because Islam here is not merely a faith and the law, Islam has become love and compassion. He who rises against Islam will reap nothing but hate and resistance. ..."
p. 17
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"... In perspective, there is but one way out in sight: creation and gathering of a new intelligence which thinks and feels along Islamic lines. This intelligence would then raise the flag of the Islamic order and together with the Muslim masses embark into action to implement this order. ..."
p. 18
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"... The shortest definition of the Islamic order defines it as a unity of faith and law, upbringing and force, ideals and interests, spiritual community and state, free will and force. As a synthesis of these components, the Islamic order has two fundamental premises: an Islamic society and Islamic authority. The former is the essence, and the latter the form of an Islamic order. An Islamic society without Islamic power is incomplete and weak; Islamic power without an Islamic society is either a utopia or violence.
A Muslim generally does not exist as an individual. If he wishes to live and survive as a Muslim, he must create an environment, a community, an order. He must change the world or be changed himself. History knows of no true Islamic movement which was not at the same time a political movement as well. This is because Islam is a faith, but also a philosophy, a set of moral codes, an order of things, a style, an atmosphere - in a nutshell, an integral way of life. ..."
p. 19
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"... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf. Therefore, there is no question of any laicistic principles, and the state should be an expression and should support the moral concepts of the religion. ..."
p. 22
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" Islam contains the principle of ummet, i.e. the tendency towards unification of all Muslims into a single community - a spiritual, cultural and political community. Islam is not a nationality, it is above nationalities. ..."
p. 27
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"... The upbringing of the nation, and especially the mass media - the press, TV and film - should be in the hands of people whose Islamic moral and intellectual authority is undisputed. ...
... Islamic renewal cannot be initiated without a religious, and cannot be successfully continued and concluded without a political revolution."
p. 32
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"... Establishing of an Islamic order is thus shown as the ultimate act of democracy, because it means the implementation of the deepest desires of the Muslim nations and common man. One thing is certain: no matter what a part of the rich and the intelligence wants, the common man wants Islam and living in his Islamic community. ..."
p. 33
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"... In the struggle for an Islamic order all methods are permitted, except one - except crime. No-one has the right to smear the beautiful name of Islam and this struggle by uncontrolled and excessive use of violence. ..."
p. 37
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"... Islamic order may be implemented only in countries where Muslims represent the majority of the population. Without this majority, the Islamic order is reduced to authority only (because the other element is lacking - the Islamic society), and may turn into violence. ..."
p. 37
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"... the Islamic movement should and must start taking over the power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough to not only overthrow the existing non-Islamic, but also to build up a new Islamic authority. ..."
p. 43
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"... Pakistan was a general rehearsal of introducing Islamic order under modern conditions and on the present stage of development. ...
... The conclusions from the twenty-odd year of Pakistan's existence are clear enough. They are:
First, the struggle for Islamic order and a general reconstruction of the Muslim society can be successfully conducted only by experienced and seasoned individuals, aligned into a staunch and homogenous organization. This organization is no political party from the arsenal of the Western democracy; it is a movement based on Islamic ideology and with clear moral and ideological criteria of belonging;
Second, the struggle for an Islamic order today is a struggle to implement the essence of Islam, and this means that in practice one must ensure religious and moral upbringing of the people and provide for basic elements of social justice. At this time, forms are of secondary importance; and
Third, the functions of the Islamic republic are not to primarily declare equality of all men and brotherhood of all Muslims, but to struggle for some of these high moral principles in practice. The awakened Islam should in every community take into its own hands the flag for a more just social order and to clearly state that in struggling for Islam another war is being declared as well, the one against ignorance, injustice and poverty, a war without compromises and setbacks. ..."
p. 45-46
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"... In one of the thesis for an Islamic order today we have stated that it is a natural function of the Islamic order to gather all Muslims and Muslim communities throughout the world into one. Under present conditions, this desire means a struggle for creating a great Islamic federation from Morocco to Indonesia, from the tropical Africa to the Central Asia. ..."
p. 46
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"... Panislamism always came from the very heart of the Muslim peoples, nationalism was always imported stuff. ..."
p. 49
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"... But, under the leadership of Zionists, started an action in Palestine which is not only inhumane and ruthless but also shortsighted and adventuresome. This politics takes in account only temporary ratio of power and forgets about overall ratio of power between Jews and Muslims in the world. This politics in Palestine is a provocation to all Muslims of the world. Jerusalem is not only a question of Palestinians, neither is it a question of Arabs only. It is a question of all the Muslim nations. TO KEEP JERUSALEM, THE JEWS WOULD HAVE TO DEFEAT ISLAM AND THE MUSLIMS, AND THAT - THANK GOD - IS OUTSIDE THEIR POWER."
p. 53
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"... We would like to distinguish between Jews and Zionists, but only if Jews themselves find strength to find the difference. We hope that the military victories, which they had against quarrelling Arab regimes, (not against Arabs or against Muslims) will not blur their minds. We hope that they will eliminate confrontation which they made by them- selves, so the new road is open to a life on the common ground of Palestine. If they, though, continue on the road of arrogance, which is more likely, then for the whole Islam movement, and FOR ALL MUSLIMS THERE IS BUT ONE SOLUTION: TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT, TO STRENGTHEN AND BROADEN IT, FROM DAY TO DAY, FROM YEAR TO YEAR, NO MATTER THE VICTIMS AND NO MATTER THE TIME it may last, until they are forced to RETURN EVERY INCH OF THE OCCUPIED LAND. EVERY NEGOTIATION AND EVERY COMPROMISE ON THIS FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE FOR OUR BROTHERS IN PALESTINE, WILL BE A TREASON WHICH MAY DESTROY THE VERY CORE OF THE MORAL SYSTEM OF OUR WORLD.
These are not new laws of our new Islam politics toward Christians and Jews, not new laws dictated by the new political situation. They are just the practical conclusions taken from the Islamic recognition of Christians and Jews which come right from the Qu'ran (Qu'ran, 29/45, 2/136, 5/47-49)
p. 53-54
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Alija Izetbegovic
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President of Bosnia, father of the Bosnian mess and author of the Islamic Declaration: A program for the Islamization of the Muslims and the Muslim Peoples (Sarajevo, 1990).
In this treatise Izetbegovic offers his "vision" for Bosnia and the Muslim world. Here I will selectively quote few passages from the 1990 edition (which he never renounced) on issues that the western press choose to ignore, perhaps fearing that the American people might understand why the Serbs fight on.
"The Islamic movement," Izetbegovic assured us, "can and should take over power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough to be able to overturn not only the existing non-Islamic government [of Bosnia] but also to build a new Islamic one." (p. 56). For the Serbs this meant that when Muslims reach 51% percent of the population in Bosnia in short six years, given their birth rate and other means. The Islamic order which would follow this overturn is defined as " a unity of religion and law, upbringing and power, ideal and interest." (p. 26). In this new order citizenship, too, is given an Islamic bend. "In the Muslim world," Izetbegovic admonishes, "there is no patriotism without Islam." (p. 64) In short, in this ideal state, the only way left for the Serbs to be considered full citizens and "patriots" would have been conversion to Islam. That is what their ancestors did in 16th century to please the Sultan and earn the right to own Orthodox Christian serfs and append the suffix "-bey" to their last names. Finally, in Izetbegovic's "Islamic order" separation of doctrine and faith from politics has no place. "There can be neither peace nor co-existance between the Islamic religion and the non-Islamic social and political institutions." (p. 30)
Alija Izetbegovic: his background and philosophies BALKAN RESEARCH CENTRE MEMBERS BRIEF A briefing paper produced for Members for the 1992/3 Session of the British Parliament Monday 21 December 1992
The Islamic Declaration
Alija Izetbegovic is dictator: His presidential term expired in December 1990. Then he broke the (valid until 1995) constitution of Bosnia according to which President of Presidency changes after one year, with longest term beeing two years.
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Yeah, like how to set up a concentration camp system - you must be so proud.
Republika Srpska delenda est.
It's just the way it's going to be.
Look up one Captain Verdy, French member of UNPROFOR and author of the first report on the Markale bombing in 1994. There is the source of your confusion. As to the 1995 incident, the Brits conveniently placed an artillery tracking radar above Sarajevo, so any Serb denial is simply more lying.
I've already researched and argued/debated all the (relevant) points you bring up, DEI, and I'm really not interested in the constant repetition engendered by talking to revisionists such as yourself.
Lastly, and unfortunately, until I can read Izetbegovic's book myself, I have to refrain from comment (kind of like commenting on the RAM plan - see?), but that does not mean I will accept any pernicious Serb-Nationalist selective editing of said book as fact.
Salute to the Serbs who confronted the world wide jihad straight on, without fear and shoved it into the grave..repeatedly.
Please get at least one thing right on this thread.
The remark about the concentration camp is very insulting, but what else could we expect from you? Look at how the US keeps its prisoners on Guantanamo before you make such a statement about concentration camps again.
A few other questions, do you think 'Republika Srpska' should have had the right to self-determination back in 1992, before the break out of the war, so the whole war could have been avoided?
Do you think,'Republica Srpska' should have the right to self-determination today? If both answers are 'No', which I know they are, explain why do you deny the right to self-determination for the serbian people back and now and why is there such a deep hatred for everything serbian in yourself? Do you have german ancestors?
US accused of weapons deals with jihad forces
By Richard Norton-Taylor in London
April 23 2002
United States intelligence agencies secretly broke a United Nations arms embargo during the 1991-95 war in Croatia by channelling arms through Islamic jihad groups that Washington is now hunting across Europe and Asia, according to evidence from The Netherlands.
The evidence surfaced in the official Dutch report into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre that led to the fall of the Dutch Government and the resignation last week of its army chief.
According to the report, the Pentagon formed a secret alliance with Islamic groups in an Iran-Contra-style operation. US, Turkish and Iranian intelligence groups worked with the Islamists in what the report calls the "Croatian pipeline". Arms bought by Iran and Turkey and financed by Saudi Arabia were flown into Croatia first by Iran Air, and later in a fleet of C-130 Hercules aircraft.
The report says mujahideen fighters were also flown in, and that the US was "very closely involved" in the operation, which was designed to help Bosnian Muslims. British secret services obtained documents proving that Iran also arranged deliveries of arms directly to Bosnia, it says.
The operation is said to have been promoted by the Pentagon, rather than the CIA, which was cautious about using Islamic groups as a conduit for arms and about breaching the embargo. When the CIA tried to place its own agents on the ground in Bosnia they were threatened by the mujahideen fighters and the Iranians training them, the report says.
The UN relied on US intelligence to monitor the embargo, a dependence that would have allowed the US to manipulate it at will.
Last month the US seized a number of Muslims in Bosnia whom it says have links with the al-Qaeda network. They were arrested in defiance of the Bosnian courts.
The contents of the section of the Dutch report titled "Intelligence and the war in Bosnia, 1992-1995" was revealed by Richard Aldrich, professor of politics at the university of Nottingham and an expert on intelligence operations. He also said the secret services of Ukraine, Greece and Israel were arming the Bosnian Serbs.
Israel's secret service, Mossad, was particularly active, concluding a substantial arms deal with the Bosnian Serbs at Pale in return for the safe passage of the Jewish population of Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital, he said.
"Subsequently, the remaining population who could not escape was perplexed to find that unexploded mortar bombs landing in Sarajevo sometimes had markings in Hebrew," Professor Aldrich said.
The UN and the Dutch Government had distanced themselves from the secret services, thus depriving them of a crucial tool during the peacekeeping operations in Bosnia. Professor Aldrich said the UN and the Dutch had "an allergic reaction" to intelligence operations.
The affair also raises the increasingly urgent issue of how to monitor intelligence agencies. "While oversight and accountability is developing on a national basis, this is not remotely matched for international co-operation [between the agencies]," Professor Aldrich said.
The Guardian
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