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To: Landru; Cyber-Band; George W. Bush; OWK; Common Tator; Grampa Dave; sultan88; Dane; CWOJackson
"...subterfuge will be required to achive Tactical Surprise against Sodom."

"Submarine launched Tomahawks will acheive the same thing."

Perhaps...

SUN-TZU: THE PRINCIPLES OF WARFARE
"THE ART OF WAR"

Chapter Three: Planning Attacks

Sun-tzu said:

"Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a nation second best; keeping an army intact is best, destroying an army second best; keeping a battalion intact is best, destroying a battalion second best; keeping a company intact is best, destroying a company second best; keeping a squad intact is best, destroying a squad second best."

"Therefore, to gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

"Therefore, the best warfare strategy is to attack the enemy's plans, next is to attack alliances, next is to attack the army, and the worst is to attack a walled city. Laying siege to a city is only done when other options are not available."

"To build large protective shields, armored wagons, and make ready the necessary arms and equipment will require at least three months. To build earthen mounds against the walls will require another three months. If the general cannot control his temper and sends troops to swarm the walls, one third of them will be killed, and the city will still not be taken. This is the kind of calamity when laying siege to a walled city."

"Therefore, one who is skilled in warfare principles subdues the enemy without doing battle, takes the enemy's walled city without attacking, and overthrows the enemy quickly, without protracted warfare. His aim must be to take All-Under-Heaven intact. Therefore, weapons will not be blunted, and gains will be intact."

Regime Change in Iraq will happen with less bloodshed than is commonly assumed...MUD

31 posted on 10/17/2002 11:17:07 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: Liz; summer; mommadooo3; Cincinatus' Wife; AuntB; Geezerette; KLT; goldilucky; Snow Bunny
Sun-Tzu: "Warfare is the Way of deception.
Therefore, if able, appear unable,
if active, appear not active,
if near, appear far,
if far, appear near.

"If they have advantage, entice them;
if they are confused, take them,
if they are substantial, prepare for them,
if they are strong, avoid them,
if they are angry, disturb them,
if they are humble, make them haughty,
if they are relaxed, toil them,
if they are united, separate them.

"Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect. This specialized warfare leads to victory, and may not be transmitted beforehand."

Ahhhh, soooo...MUD

32 posted on 10/17/2002 11:23:53 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: Mudboy Slim; PhiKapMom
You know my belief that the first step to your goals, my goals and the Goals of most Americans must happen this Election Day.

We must gain total control of the senate to make Da$$hole a true minority Rat. We must increase our control of the house.

Then, in January when the new congress is sworn in, we can bring back Controlling Legal Authority for the rats in and out out of political power!

Defeat the incumbent rats running for re election in the house and the Senate on 5 November.

That will be my sixty fourth birthday, and that is the only present I want!
33 posted on 10/17/2002 11:27:27 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Mudboy Slim
The most impressive thing about Dubya is you can't predict what he will do tactically. The specifics always have an unexpected twist. It is easy to predict where he will come down on issues. But Dubya's means of gaining victory always contain surprises.

Loot at the situation to date. Last summer he was going it alone. The UN could take its security council and shove it... Bush was the big ole Lone Ranger. He wasn't even going to ask Tonto.. let alon Aman...

Then oh my god.. Bush was going belly up.. YOu could see the Gleem in Wolfe Blitzers eyes. Bush was going to the UN to ask for permission... Bush has learned that even Tonto is way too little... etc.

Then he goes to the UN and says "you and Tonto take Sadam down Or I will all by my Lone Ranger self" That wasn't expected. Taht caught them flat footed or dead a$$ed or both as the case may be.

Then came the shoot out at the OK Coral Senate with Big Byrd and his AK-87 or was that 97 and 3/6. In any event Daschle and Bryd were prepaired to hold out util after the election and then... The word was Bush was "GASP" going to compromise. Then by golly we learned that he had allowed Gephardt to change the worlds "Bush can go to war if he wants to" to the much softer "Bush may go to war if he wants to" Which I think proves that Gephardt took English in high school. At the end it looked a lot like Gephardts belly that was up. I could not stand to look at Big Byrds belly. But I hear it has a giant tattoo of Jim Beam. But Byrd is easy if you know you to have talk to him. They say he will swallow everything that Jack Daniels puts out. But that may only be about a fifth of the truth.

Now we hear that Bush may be watering down the UN resolution. And that Bush going wobbly. But Saddam isn't going to like May any better than Can and his butt is still going to fall.

There is in every dictatorship and extreme desire by all but a very few to survive and prosper after the fall of the dictatorship. Most of the commanders were around in 1991, they know they will be destroyed if they fight. They will surrender when they become certain of our victory.

Saddam has next to no airforce. It is much smaller than it was at the start of 1991. He has a less well equiped army. He has fewer tanks and not much else except rifles and poison gas and biological weapons.

One thing is certain that nerve gas and biological weapons are not effective against smart bombs. By the first of next year it is likely that we will have very nearly enough smart weapons to take out his entire fighting force except for those with the white flags which will be many and sundry come to think of it.

There has been debate about smart weapons and the need for ground toops. Smart weapons don't need ground troops on water. It is hard to mount an askirmish line in the middle of the ocean. Smart weapons need few gound troups on a desert as well. Sand is like water only you can walk on it ... sort of... Smart weapons are almost enough in a mountainous area. Smart weapons are not enough in a wooded green area of hills and valleys.

That is, troops are needed for a total victory in a Kosovo. They are needed but don't have to be very good in the moutains and valleys of Afghanistan. In Iraq ground troops will not be need much at all.

The one fly is when Saddam hides troops and weapons among civilians. WE have been working on it since 1991. WE likely have at least a partial solution.

Clinton ran us out of smart weapons and didn't make anymore. He let the companies mostly close or dispurse their design staffs.

That means Bush had to start from scratch. That means to me that we will have 2002 generation smart bombs. They will be as improved over the smart bombs designed in 1985 as the new PC's are over the IBM -AT.

This will not be a conventional war. Remember the media is set to report on a war like the war fought by dear old daddy Bush. But this ain't your daddies Bush. It is the next generation and it will be new and much improved.

38 posted on 10/17/2002 12:40:06 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Cyber-Band
"SUN-TZU: THE PRINCIPLES OF WARFARE
"THE ART OF WAR"

Chapter Three: Planning Attacks

Sun-tzu said:

"Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a nation second best; keeping an army intact is best, destroying an army second best; keeping a battalion intact is best, destroying a battalion second best; keeping a company intact is best, destroying a company second best; keeping a squad intact is best, destroying a squad second best."

"Therefore, to gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

"Therefore, the best warfare strategy is to attack the enemy's plans, next is to attack alliances, next is to attack the army, and the worst is to attack a walled city. Laying siege to a city is only done when other options are not available."

"To build large protective shields, armored wagons, and make ready the necessary arms and equipment will require at least three months. To build earthen mounds against the walls will require another three months. If the general cannot control his temper and sends troops to swarm the walls, one third of them will be killed, and the city will still not be taken. This is the kind of calamity when laying siege to a walled city."

"Therefore, one who is skilled in warfare principles subdues the enemy without doing battle, takes the enemy's walled city without attacking, and overthrows the enemy quickly, without protracted warfare. His aim must be to take All-Under-Heaven intact. Therefore, weapons will not be blunted, and gains will be intact."

Regime Change in Iraq will happen with less bloodshed than is commonly assumed...MUD

31 posted on 10/17/2002 2:17 PM EDT by Mudboy Slim

Still true...MUD

523 posted on 11/18/2002 9:28:13 AM PST by Mudboy Slim
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