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MSNBC says AK-74....
MSNBC

Posted on 10/15/2002 4:13:51 PM PDT by fooman

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To: MHGinTN
The use of a single shot would possibly indicate they have brought a supply of ammo with them and don't know how to rechamber for more readily available NATO .223

you can order all the 5.45x39 ammo you want over the internet (you just need a copy of a driver's license, which can be mailed or faxed to the supplier, of which I'm sure the Al Qaidians have plenty of "clean" examples) and have it shiped to you via UPS. AK-74 clones (and Russian built semi autos too) are available in the US. For those you have to show up in person. But there are likely plenty of clean non middle eastern looking muslims available to make those purchases.

161 posted on 10/15/2002 10:35:28 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: El Gato
AK-74 clones Price man, price! I might want one, don'tcha know.
162 posted on 10/15/2002 10:38:29 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: fooman
Scary thought if true. Arm the citizens!

The citizens are supposed to arm themselves. Many of us have. More will. Those of us who are already part of the "Gun Culture" need to help the newbies on their way.

163 posted on 10/15/2002 10:39:28 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: MHGinTN
Auction Arms MG
164 posted on 10/15/2002 10:40:57 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Danke, mein herr.
165 posted on 10/15/2002 10:46:47 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Thumper1960
my AK-47 knockoff SKS is chambered for 7.62.

The SKS is not an AK-47 knockoff. It's an older design in fact, although chambered for the same catridge. It didn't serve too long in the Soviet forces, but much longer in the Chinese and some eastern european ones. In the case of the Chinese it was used by "regional militias", long after it went out of front line PLA service, it may still be used for all I know.

However it's an AK-74 not -47 that is being reported here. that is an AK-47/AKM "knockoff", or more properly an evolved variant, chambered for a different catridge the 5.45 x39(in Soviet/Russian and former Soviet block militaries), this is in essense a .22 caliber, although the loaded catridge is coniderably different from the .233/5.56 NATO catridge. However AK-74s are also available in .223 caliber, as are AK-47s. (All references are really to semi-automatic versions of the AK-47 and AK-74, except those refering to the military versions)

166 posted on 10/15/2002 10:47:35 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: jwalsh07
SAR3, .223 can be bought online

Only if you have a FFL to send the supplier a copy of. Of course the Jihadies probably have plenty of those. The best that money can buy I expect, although just putting "clean" member through the process, even to the point of opening a for real storefront gun store, would suffice and be less risky than "buying" an FFL. (FFL = Federal Firearms License)

167 posted on 10/15/2002 10:55:53 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: aristeides
So how did they get into the country? In a diplomatic pouch?,

Just as likely they came in a container, in a crate marked as "machine tools" or sewing machines. After all we can't stop tons of marijuana from comming in, and that stuff is considerably bulkier than firearms.

168 posted on 10/15/2002 11:01:00 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: aristeides
Are 5.45 x 39MM rounds available in this country?

Most certainly. From various sources, including Russian ammunition factories, plus Czech ones and those of some other former Soviet block countries.

169 posted on 10/15/2002 11:04:51 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: El Gato
Well now see, you guys have confused me again! I guess I'll just continue to depend on my trusty M-1 Carbine with dual butt pouch for spare mags. I can still see well enough to hit coke jugs at 100 yards with its metal sights.
170 posted on 10/15/2002 11:07:35 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: FF578
Previous picture post was "Airborne troops model" here is "Motorized Infantry Model"... AKS-74 Assault Rifle

"The AKS-74, developed for motorized infantry, became operational in 1974.

Characteristics

Caliber, mm 5.45

Cartridge 5.45x39

Magazine capacity, rds 30

Sighting range, m 1000

Muzzle velocity, m/s 900"

171 posted on 10/15/2002 11:16:39 PM PDT by Drago
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To: El Gato
Dang! Reading this thread has certainly whet my apetite for a new toy. I feel kind of inadequate with old bolt action Mausers, O3A3s, Rugers and Remingtons.

Could you recomend a starting point for an old codger that wants a new toy?

172 posted on 10/15/2002 11:29:33 PM PDT by alaskanfan
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To: jdege; FF578
I wonder about the rationale for the AK-74, esp. going subcaliber.

The M-16 and the AK-47 both were pretty good jungle carbines, the Sov/Chinese weapon being supposedly a little better. The rationale for the 7.62x39 round's development I understand, but why go smallbore, if you are a Russian gunsmith, when your overall goal is to defend a country in which engagement distances would likely be longer even than in Europe or North America?

Absent cover, and it is in a lot of Russia, you'd think they'd go back to the 7.62x54, and fight with nothing but Drags and MG's at engagement distances of 400 yards and up.

173 posted on 10/16/2002 2:55:31 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: El Gato
"Only if you have a FFL to send the supplier a copy of. Of course the Jihadies probably have plenty of those. The best that money can buy I expect, although just putting "clean" member through the process, even to the point of opening a for real storefront gun store, would suffice and be less risky than "buying" an FFL. (FFL = Federal Firearms License)"

The buyer of the firearm need only contact a FFL holder who does transfers. Typically they charge $10-$30 for the transfer fee. They buyer then has the FFL holder send a copy of the license to seller and seller ships to the buyer's local FFL holder. The background check is done when the buyer picks-up the firearm from the local FFL.

174 posted on 10/16/2002 3:05:38 AM PDT by Godebert
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To: fooman
IMHO...
Despite its popularity in the USA, most people are unaware of the term "AR-15", which is the most likely .223 rifle being used. Oddly, most people DO know the term "AK-47" and perversely apply the name to any "assault weapon" rifle featuring a prominent detachable magazine. As such, a witness may contaminate the investigation by not knowing what s/he is talking about and using the wrong term. (Thanks, media, for grossly mis-educating your viewers.)
175 posted on 10/16/2002 3:17:20 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: suijuris
Still, AK 84S is not the type of rifle a typical sniper would use.

Neither is any .223 rifle. Any self-respecting sniper would use something like the .308 (.30-06, 7.62x54R, .243, 7mm, .303, etc.) instead: harder-hitting rounds with flatter trajectory. (IMHO.)

176 posted on 10/16/2002 3:22:11 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: alaskanfan
Could you recomend a starting point for an old codger that wants a new toy?

Kill that sniper SOB and I'll let you keep his.

'Course, you'll need your Class III paper.

177 posted on 10/16/2002 3:32:20 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: *bang_list

AK-102 -5.56X45 (.223), Short barrel, folding stock

AK-101 -5.56X45 (.223), Long barrel, folding stock

178 posted on 10/16/2002 4:23:25 AM PDT by TERMINATTOR
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To: fooman
Depends on condition of recovered bullet.
179 posted on 10/16/2002 4:43:58 AM PDT by donozark
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To: Godebert
Didn't blame the Romanians. CAI hammer monkeys installed sufficient number of US made parts to meet the "10 part" rule. Weapon did go "bang" everytime I pulled the trigger. However, I installed Red Star Arms trigger group. Adjustable. Completely different weapon.

Additional problems with some SARs were 1(Canted front sight 2)Defective piston rod 3)Poor finish 4)Beechwood stock and handguards have more fishscale than the common Carp! But for $225? A good deal for a shade-tree gunsmith.

180 posted on 10/16/2002 4:48:59 AM PDT by donozark
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