Posted on 10/15/2002 4:13:51 PM PDT by fooman
MSNBC says that the terrorist used an AK-74. That and the fact the AP witness says that this guy looked Middle Eastern(MSNBC left this out), plus the story about two 'hispanics' at an earlier strike.
Plus the elusivisness and meticuluous planning of this group...
I used to own a Valmet M76 in .223. It was one of the best made AKs I ever handled; ignoring the horrid ergonomics, it was actually an AK design that felt like it had been designed with the shooters in mind. And while not particularly accurate compared to an AR15, it was very accurate for an AK action. It could do 1.5 MOA all day with decent ammo.
Yes....a case of 1,000 rounds runs about $99.
spunkets, absent probable cause, all American citizens are assumed by law to be "well-behaved."
Constitutional law captures this concept perfectly: "Innocent until proven guilty by a jury of one's peers." And before one even gets to that juncture, there must be probable cause to even so much as execute a search warrant....
But that's NOT the issue we're dealing with here; for I do suspect -- and think I suspect with reason -- that we are not dealing with a "home-grown perp" here.
Even a comparative dim-whizz like Arlen Spector wants to open up the OK City bombing investigation to entertain the possibility of a middle-eastern connection -- as in finally making an identification of John Doe (what was it 1 or 2?).
My theory is that Bill Clinton took every terrorist event that transpired in America during his reign in office, and characterized it as "domestic terrorism." He did this for his own reasons, whatever they may have been.
But then, it does make for a grand excuse to grab guns, after all, killing 2A (finally!) into the bargain.
But I have to believe this guy -- Clinton -- knew far better than that: As president, he had all the relevant evidence in the world on this issue available to any mortal.
So, just go question his motives if you want. The reality we now live with is exactly the same: (1) Disarming civilians does not lead to crime reduction even marginally (Hey, capital crimes are way UP in Boston -- in a state that can take pride in the fact that it has "the most draconian gun law in the nation"); and (2) people who want to get guns for nefarious purposes aren't in the least inconvenienced by any laws federal, state, or local governments see fit to pass.
We can ride our "hobby-horses" all we want to. But it seems to me, sooner or later, "reality" just has to sink in....
It is worth pointing out that these figures can be greatly extended with some minor gun tweaks for the AR15. There are .223 loads that are very accurate and supersonic beyond 1,000 yards out of 20" barrels. The military proscribed limits are not a real limit of that particular rifle/cartridge combination by a long shot. Not that your average grunt would have this configuration or bullet selection, but with an AK-74, you are pretty much stuck with what you have.
Daus, your insight here appears to run deep, and to the heart of the issue we as Americans now face. It's apparent you've been considering this thing in depth and for a while.
I'm grateful for your thoughts, and hope to do them justice in further meditation. But I have to tell you, it looks to me like you have the last word on this particular question.... My sincere thanks.
It is an Al Qaeda fashion accessory; they wouldn't be caught dead with an M16 or an H&K. You can't hang with the culture if you don't own the proper pimp rig. It is like the M1911 cult in the US; it is less about the real capability of the weapon than believing in the religion. Men being men, Osama owns a pimp AK so that he can be the biggest swinging dick in the tribe (figuratively, of course). Tools are a status symbol, and the kinds of tools you use are determined by the groups you associate with, not the other way around (sadly).
As well we all should. Absent any other information, I still think this is one guy, seriously motivated.
I agree that you should resist, by any means available to you, those who would make and/or keep you and your loved ones unarmed potential victims. If the Socialist Democrats continue on this line of disarming and disabling the public, they are going to have more than one sniper on their hands, and they will become the "random" targets... deservedly so.
Reality is close, about 150 yards out.
Norinco made/still makes three AK variants in .223 called AK84 S One of the three was called a Polytech AK 84S. They came in 16in and 21 in barrel lengths and all had 1 in 9 rifling twist.
Still, AK 84S is not the type of rifle a typical sniper would use. It will certainly do the job out to 150 to 200 yards or so, but is rated less accurate than an AR-15; but overall more reliable.
Well the Kalishnakov profile is very well known. So maybe they showed the witness pictures of various guns that could fire a high velocity approximately .22 caliber round, and he picked the AK of which ever type. Maybe it's one chambered in .223/5.56 NATO, maybe one chambered in 5.45x39? There is a different in the shape of the magazine (note that M-16/AR-15 magazines are straight, whereas AK-47 and AK-74 magazines (in 5.45x39) are curved "banana clips". This is due to the shape of the catridge, (7.62 NATO magazines are straight too, even the 30 round ones). Maybe the picture the witness ID'd had a curved magazine, but since both Chinese -47s and Russian (and other) -74s are available in both 5.45 and 5.56, maybe not too.
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