MSNBC says AK-74....

MSNBC

[fooman]

MSNBC says that the terrorist used an AK-74. That and the fact the AP witness says that this guy looked Middle Eastern(MSNBC left this out), plus the story about two 'hispanics' at an earlier strike.

Plus the elusivisness and meticuluous planning of this group...

[fooman]

interesting..

I am so happy for the all the gunsmith knowledge on this board.

We FR know a helluva lot more than the clueless media bacuase we can put together all of the parts.

[Lloyd227]

"did you mean the AK-47? Or the "civilian knock-off," the AR-15?"

Are you sure you wouldn't like to revise and extend your remarks? :-)

[fooman]

The AK 47 was always trumpeted because it was 'tough'

The m16 being more accurate and carrying more ammo b/c of smaller caliber you do not hear so much....

The history channel had a thing where Mcnamera and his wiz kids would not chrome plate the m16 and that led to cleaning/jamming problems in 'nam.

(off topic)What do you think of the new alliantec gun with the exploding overhead round?

[jwalsh07]

SAR3, .223 can be bought online.

[Godebert]

"SAR3, .223 can be bought online."

Yup....but that's a pic of a SAR-1 (7.62x39).

[jwalsh07]

:-} Sure the hell is. Buyer beware.

[Omegaman 308]

I wonder if the investigators on these sniper shootings have covered all the bases.They hold up all types of the usual black rifles AR-15,H&K etc. Has anyone thought it could be a sabot round? They used to be make them for various rifles.You can take a .223 bullet and load it in a 30-30 rifle like a Winchester.the sabot is a piece of plastic that will fit the bore tight .But it will peel off the bullet in flight.So a .223 bullet can be fired in a variety of different caliber rifles.The sabot goes down the barrel and there are no rifling marks on the bullet.

[fooman]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20021015_2383.html


even abc notes the ME men. hehe

[fooman]

kool and interesting explanation.

[DugwayDuke]

I'm sure this may have occurred to others but I would say that if this guy really did change his behavior by stepping out of the vehicle in view of witnesses and did show an AK-74, then he had his reasons for doing so. The sniper hasn't made many dumb moves so one must question why he did so last night.

It occurs to me that he might have been sending a message that he was not some looney kid or some crazy gun nut white guy, that he was AlQaeda. The departure from his past behavior when he was so careful not to be seen is stiking. His use of a distinctive firearm, not a 223, is also striking. Perhaps the snipers actions last night were a message pure and simple.

[betty boop]

Are you sure you wouldn't like to revise and extend your remarks? :-)

Given that I do not consider myself an expert in firearms (though I am a fairly regular user of same, being a target sports enthusiast); and given that my "remarks" published above are the residue of knowledge made available to me only through the kindness of friends, whom I believe are deeply expert in their field, my answer to your question is: NO. Though I'm sure if you were to pose a succinct question, I could refer it to V, S, or D and get you a decent answer....

That is to say, if you would like to ask a more specific question, I'd be more than glad to research the issue -- which in all probability would mean I'd readily consult with those friends of mine whom I consider (with reason, I believe) to be the real experts on issues like this.

I'm waiting.... Do you have a question for me (them)?

[fooman]

Uh huh. This is really heating. I wish they would stop being so PC and cough up the the john doe #2 composite.

Then, we could really get some leads

[MediaMole]

Can the gas system of an AK of this type be adjusted like an FAL to make it effectively a single shot weapon?

My uneducated understanding is that an FAL can be adjusted so each round must be manually ejected. If an AK could be adjusted like this, it could explain the lack of shell casings at most of the scenes.

[Lloyd227]

Hi Betty, sorry but I was trying not to be mean and give you an opportunity to correct yourself first.

"did you mean the AK-47? Or the "civilian knock-off," the AR-15?"

The AK-47 and the AR-15 are two entirely different weapons, one is not a 'civilian knock-off' of the other.

Best regards, Lloyd

[fnord]

haven't met the A3 yet .. what are the modifications to the A2?

[fooman]

Yes, we want to know about the A3

[aristeides]

So the elite Al Queda, ie snipers, use the AK74 which aren't imported into the US. They are full auto weapons so can't be sold here.

I guess the Al Queda types didn't know that importing guns without a license is against the law.

So how did they get into the country? In a diplomatic pouch? I wonder which country's?

[Daus]

Did a little 'googling'...

From this link
http://www.wmsa.net/washpost_011126.htm

You won't see guns like that carried by the Taliban, no sir. Look at Osama bin Laden's gun. It's visible in any of a dozen pictures and it's tubeless, screenless and grenade-launcherless. But it, too, is not only a gun. It's a gun with a coded message; you can read this guy like a book.

He's certainly no Captain Winters from HBO's "Band of Brothers," who, despite his natural genius for soldiering, insisted on carrying the line soldier's prosaic M1 all the way to Berchtesgarten. No, bin Laden's narcissism -- dead giveaway to a fake tough guy -- mandates that he make a fashion statement.

Any idiot knows that was an AK-47 leaning against the cave wall behind bin Laden during his videotaped response to the American bombing. Yes, the AK-47, the most famous of the liberation firearms distributed globally by the Soviet Union and its client states during the Cold War. There may be 50 million of them floating around the globe today.

Except it wasn't. But if you're one of the idiots, don't feel bad; you belong with the other 99.9 percent of the population that doesn't know anything about guns. Bin Laden's rifle wasn't an AK-47 at all, but one of its descendants, an AK-74, and of a particular modification that included, for portability and ease of handling, a very short barrel and a folding skeletonized stock and a flash suppressor. It's called a Krinkov.

It's actually a hybrid. If you crossed a classic 7.62mm x 39 Soviet AK-47 with an American 5.56mm NATO M4, its natural antagonist in about a million firefights in about 75 wars, insurrections and special-ops tiffs, you'd get the AK-74, which is the AK-47 mechanism reconfigured to fire the smaller-caliber, high-velocity round. Then you trick it up; by cutting the barrel and adding that folding stock, you get a Krinkov, which is the current hot lick among people who want to be noticed. It was designed for airborne troops. If you're not going to be jumping out of airplanes, it doesn't do anything for you that the 47 won't.

Bin Laden knows this: For him the gun isn't just a weapon, it's a symbol. He's making a statement, as with the curved ceremonial dagger that hangs from his belt when he's all duded-up in his white finery. He is making a claim: I am of the elite. In other words, he is saying something so Western it suggests the soul-deep depth of his hypocrisy. He is saying: I am so cool.

A fellow who favors posing with a Krinkov has delusions of grandeur, and he'll try to take over no matter the venue.

Bin Laden wouldn't be caught dead with a regular old AK, but his men are, all over the place. In a funny way, I like it better that he has this little vanity. I don't think he's a good enough man for an AK-47 and what it stands for. This is the true symbol of the war, for both sides seem to have it in the thousands, and no matter where the war blows next, you can bet that most of the close-in killing will be done with that old war horse. That cold wind you just felt, that was the chill of history.

[aristeides]

If the Police knew it was a 5.45 x 39MM round and not an actual .223 this could explain the story.

Are 5.45 x 39MM rounds available in this country?

Does this mean the perps were trained abroad, like in Afghanistan?

[american_ranger]

I own an AK-47 which shoots 5.56mm or 2.23 caliber. It is made by Norinco. Now what?