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HOW WE'LL FIGHT
New York Post ^ | 10/14/02 | BEVIN ALEXANDER

Posted on 10/14/2002 9:07:34 AM PDT by kattracks

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:09:31 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

ELIMINATING Saddam Hussein will cause far fewer casualties than many commentators have suggested.

A war against Saddam's forces need not require large numbers of troops and need not necessitate a bloody urban battle through the streets of Baghdad, as some doomsayers have predicted. To win, U.S. forces don't have to attack Baghdad at all. Nor need they attack the Iraqi army directly.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 10/14/2002 9:07:34 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
If he let the force remain unopposed, he'd lose control of his country.

Pardon me, but this is silly, IMHO. We put a force in place in the boonies and say "come attack me" and Saddam just says "so what?". You win wars by occupying ground and killing the enemy, and that hasn't changed in a few hundred thousand years, and that is what we're going to have to do.

2 posted on 10/14/2002 9:14:45 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
If the Iraqi army, instead, elected not to fight and to remain in Baghdad, it would be isolated, impotent and in danger of starvation. Meanwhile the rest of the country would be liberated.

That might work. The problem is that the images of civilians in Baghdad starving to death or succumbing to disease due to a U.S. "siege" would be plastered all over the world. That might not be something that we could continue for an extended period, and the author hasn't addressed that possibility at all.

3 posted on 10/14/2002 9:24:39 AM PDT by XJarhead
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To: Billthedrill
I don't know about that. Siege warfare has been around a long time too. It is good strategy to isolate and cut off an enemy that cannot then attack you directly without losing that attack. I expect my generals to not waste their troop's lives with head-on clashes when, as Dubya said, "We will smoke them out of their holes and then kill them!"

Regardless of time-honored traditions, the American military does what's needed to win even if it's non-standard. Otherwise, the British would've won when we stood line-to-line with them. Hiding behind trees and rocks picking off the British (then the world's superpower) thin red line worked, despite the line-to-line tradition of that era's European warfare tactics.

4 posted on 10/14/2002 9:25:21 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
Right - seige warfare on Baghdad

The only thing to do is wait them out. this is certainly consistent with symbolizing how the the attack is one of liberation as opposed to occupation.

5 posted on 10/14/2002 9:31:15 AM PDT by flamefront
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To: kattracks
GPS can find and precisely locate even single tanks, cannons, vehicles and small bodies of troops

Either Mr. Alexander or his editor clearly does not understand what GPS is, or how it works. Such a basic error makes me suspicious of his entire article.

More to the point, Mr. Alexander seems to be saying that we need not deploy troops in order to defeat Iraq. Instead, we need only expand our "No-Fly Zones" to take out anything we don't like the looks of.

Mr. Alexander says (correctly) that the Iraqis would be foolish to get together in large groups. The problem is, a dispersed Iraqi army still controls Iraq, unless we send our guys in to take the real estate. That means regular battles, and regular casualties (perhaps Bevin missed the fact that such things occurred in Afghanistan).

Now, I also happen to believe we can do this without a lot of casualties, but not for the surgical reasons Mr. Alexander provides. Rather, I suspect that the Iraqis will be more than happy to surrender, and to be rid of Saddam and sons.

Alexander paints a rosy picture, all right. But then, roses grow best when nourished by a deep layer of BS -- which is what this article is.

6 posted on 10/14/2002 9:33:39 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Billthedrill
We put a force in place in the boonies and say "come attack me" and Saddam just says "so what?".

What if we put a force in place, and then put Exxon/Mobil in place, and then say "come stop us from taking your oil." Do you think Saddam will just say "so what?"

The possibilities are endless.

(steely)

7 posted on 10/14/2002 9:39:04 AM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: XJarhead
Some possible drawbacks of a siege strategy:

1. It probably only enhances Saddam's power relative to his subjects.
2. Saddam would likely respond by lobbing chem agents at our troops in Iraq. The more Iraqis killed in the process, the better for Saddam, because the media will spin it as our fault.

I like the idea of an orchestrated series of feints so we can get Saddam to play his cards early and on our timetable, and so we can regain the element of surprise.

One thing I like about a siege strategy is that we will knock out the communications early, requiring information to be passed in person, not by electronics. When Iraqi troops mass together, ka-boom.

This leaves them operating in chaos and panic with limited command-and-control.

8 posted on 10/14/2002 9:40:47 AM PDT by Monti Cello
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To: kattracks
I think that some limitation on our urban offensive is reasonable, but I don’t think it's realistic to depend of popular insurrection, and I don't think that it's politically acceptable to simply lay siege to populated areas.

For both to occur, I think we'll have to occupy militarily strategic and politically symbolic places that may be in Baghdad in order to isolate loyalist elements of Saddam's guards. Only then will it be possible to offer a protected alternative to the Iraqi people and the military. Only then can we ignore heavily defended urban areas for extended periods of time.
9 posted on 10/14/2002 9:44:55 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: Billthedrill
You win wars by occupying ground and killing the enemy

But, if we've identified a proxy (new regime), we need not occupy that ground (the city) ourselves. We WOULD be occupying, effectively, the rest of the country. It's been months since I first read the Baghdad-isolation strategy, and I still think it's the way to go. We can choke them to death just by surrounding them. Saddam (and his sympathizers) like the idea of Somalia-like street warfare, but it's just not necessary.

10 posted on 10/14/2002 9:46:20 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Billthedrill
"The true art of war is starving your enemy."
Frederick the Great King of Prussia
11 posted on 10/14/2002 9:49:58 AM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: kattracks
How We'll Fight........We'll Fight Down and Dirty!!!!
12 posted on 10/14/2002 9:52:54 AM PDT by Defender2
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To: kattracks
A strong (not necessarily large) American force dropped into the heart of Iraq would be invincible.

This is fatuous. Saddam disclosed in 1995 that he had 5000 gallons of weaponized Botulinum poison. Our forces would be sitting ducks.

13 posted on 10/14/2002 10:00:18 AM PDT by Henk
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To: kattracks
Of course one way to avoid urban warfare in Baghdad is to eliminate Baghdad. With advance notice so that the people could evacuate and/or rise up against Saddam. Either way, no us ground troops required.

The fireball would likely take care of any nasty germs or chemicals stored in the area.

14 posted on 10/14/2002 10:16:41 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: El Gato
multiple fireballs...
15 posted on 10/14/2002 10:58:43 AM PDT by jdogbearhunter
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To: Alas Babylon!
Siege warfare has been around a long time too.

Yeah, but the sheeple were more patient back then. There was no CNN and real-time polls to worry about. While you are others are raising valid military points, you have to consider the political angle. W will have a hard time of this if it drags on and on and on ... He will have to do this rather quickly so economy has time to pick back up before 2004 election cycle.
16 posted on 10/14/2002 11:01:07 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Billthedrill; kattracks
. We put a force in place in the boonies and say "come attack me" and Saddam just says "so what?".

Not quite. Basra is Shia territory, and should fall quickly, along with the southern oil fields.

The north is Kurdish, and is presently relatively independent. It shouldn't be difficult to occupy this ground, and push the line of control only a few miles south to include the northern oil fields.

A drive on Baghdad would only have to go far enough to seize the oil installations around Baghdad.

At that point, Saddam and Baghdad become irrelevant. They can come out to play, and face annihilation, or hunker down until they implode. The most likely scenario is that the Iraqi Army will enter Baghdad and take it from Saddam. In my mind's eye I envision something similar to Bucharest and the annihilation of Ceacescu's security apparatus by the Romanian army.

It will be ticklish, but I fully believe that entire units of the Iraqi army will switch sides, and they will be our occupation force.

17 posted on 10/14/2002 11:01:44 AM PDT by marron
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To: XJarhead
The problem is that the images of civilians in Baghdad starving to death or succumbing to disease due to a U.S. "siege" would be plastered all over the world. That might not be something that we could continue for an extended period, and the author hasn't addressed that possibility at all.

My thoughts too. The author's suggestion that the Iraqi people might rise up against Saddam is a good posibilty, but in that event I suspect Saddam would release whatever WMDs he has on hand against his own people in Baghdad. These are potentical problems I'm sure our planners are aware of. The author's premise is correct though, and I posted as much months ago. Really one armored cavalry regiment with sufficient backup could destroy any combination of forces Saddam could send against them.

18 posted on 10/14/2002 11:10:38 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: Alas Babylon!
Hardly. When Lexington and Concord happened, the farmers picked of the British troops from behind 'rocks and trees' as you put it... After the Continental Army was formed, the US troops learned to fight in the linear lines of the day, to use the bayonet and that is how we fought and won.


dvwjr
19 posted on 10/14/2002 11:27:15 AM PDT by dvwjr
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To: Billthedrill
"Pardon me, but this is silly, IMHO. We put a force in place in the boonies and say "come attack me" and Saddam just says "so what?". You win wars by occupying ground and killing the enemy, and that hasn't changed in a few hundred thousand years, and that is what we're going to have to do."

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that we simply dropped a ten-megaton bomb on Baghdad and walked away. "NEXT!"

Why do we need to occupy Iraq?

The way to conquer territory is to stand on it and defend it against all comers. But we don't really need the territory (possibly the oil fields), we just want Saddam, his henchmen, and his entire government to go 'poof!'. Nothing like a nuke to do that once and for all.

--Boris

20 posted on 10/14/2002 12:12:38 PM PDT by boris
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