At War With EVIL (FReeper GaryMontana)

Free Republic | 10-14-2002 | GaryMontana

[7thson]

Mr. Montana - I like your style. In your original post, most of what you said is easily verifiable just by following the news in the last year.

Let me tell you and all Freepers what I do not like. People like DeviantMind that come out and make bold statements and then they never come back. That person has to be reading this thread. Over fifty responses to that one thread and not one peep from him or her. I cannot understand, that if they do not like what is being said here, then why come here and post?

[Auntie Mame]

Gary, thought you might like to read this.

MinuteGal, I, too, emailed this to my list. I'd like you to read some of the replies I received today and invite you to post some of the replies you received.

"Extremely powerful. It scares the heck out of me hat "we" have become so complacent -- especially after 9/11. I do not understand the memory loss of the humanity that was lost and the horror of it all, and how so many are kicking and screaming to, in effect, just wait and see what happens. It is appallingly scary."

"That was chilling."

"This guy has it right down to the wire! This article should be harolded from every rooftop in every city and town in America until every person: man, woman and child has heard it! I'm listening!"

"Very enlightening."

[GaryMontana]

Thank you for your kind words

Gary

[GaryMontana]

Thank you for your kind words.

I would love to be a columnist


Sincerely,

Gary

[Smile-n-Win]

Imagine what would happen if he came right out and said that Islam is a sham religion and that we - America and the West - must destroy it. Hell, Congress would call for his head, the UN and the rest of the world would shun him

That's right--he's being called all sorts of names in Europe even now. The Eurowussies would go crazy if he did any more than he is doing now. But after a while, they will get used to the U.S. being like this, and they'll stop complaining. Doing the right thing is considered "extremism" and "unacceptable" now--but by persisting in doing the right thing, President Bush is gradually making it normal and acceptable again.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Got any facts to back up your statements?

[dansangel]

BTTT...this thread deserves to be read!

[panther33]

Point taken.

[Auntie Mame]

Received one more interesting response to the mass email I sent out with your article:

"Wow, I can't believe the contents of this e-mail! At first I
wanted to just disregard it as quite one-sided and black & white, but
when I got to the end of it I found I couldn't argue with most of the
facts. Granted - most muslims practicing here in the states aren't
the militant ones (I've been to the parrish in Orange, and they're
very normal and friendly people), but that's not to say they couldn't
become radicalized at some future date. And when I defend Islam
against irrational attacks, I do point out that Christianity has been
at least as horrific (as this e-mail admits), but it's correct in
saying that that stuff is quite far in the past. As I hope these
atrocities will be way in the past of a future Muslim religion.
Maybe? I guess we'll see, and there's not much we can do about it
except make people aware of what's going on. As I've done by
forwarding this to the people in my address book. And I'm sure I'll
get some flack for that!

[texson66]

And when I defend Islam against irrational attacks, I do point out that Christianity has been at least as horrific...,

Lets remember that the crusades were a response to the orginal muslim invasion for conversion by the sword!

[DeviantMind]

I'll begin by addressing the comment about my name. I chose it to represent the fact that I am not one to simply fall in line, to accept without questioning or to walk along like a lemming until I fall off a cliff because I was too ignorant to find things out for myself. Deviant, a derivative of "deviate" suggests that I choose to take the road less traveled, rather than follow every other footstep on a particular path.

Now, as far as Islam declaring war on America, that is a fallacy. I never stated that the individuals who have been making the attacks were not Muslim. That may very well be true, and in some cases we have that as fact. My point was that the accusations that -ISLAM- has declared war are ludicrous. A system of religious beliefs cannot declare war. Nations wage war, men declare war, factions fight wars, religions do not. To say that a religion declared a war is saying that an intangible concept has attacked a tangible nation-state. Again, ludicrous.

With the exception of the Catholic church, there is not a single known religion that boasts a seat of power, or a hierarchy of leadership presided over by a single, living individual. Islam most certainly does not have this. It is true that there are nations in the world that are considered "Islamic States," but these are autonomous, and often have as much difficulty negotiating with one another as they do with the United States.

To the person who claimed I hate the United States. Grow up. If I hated the United States, I would move. There are plenty of countries in the world that I could go to where I would be able to avoid breathing toxic fumes from the same airspace as simple minded, ignorant conformists. But I am a born citizen of these United States, and take great pride in the fact that I live here. I am also proud to say, with moderate certainty, that the individuals who founded this country were not close minded snobs who spoke out against anything that did not fit within their precious paradigm.

And to the challenge to prove the post wrong, I don't have to. You've done that for me by being unwilling, but most importantly _unable_ to locate any reliable evidence to support your claims. An effective debate flows with one individual making a statement, the second party challenging the statement and then the claimant presenting evidence to support his claims. When the claimant is unable to do so, he loses credibility, and thus the debate is over.

A note: I respect the right that each of you have to believe what you want, and to say what you want. However, I also have those same rights, and will enjoy them as I see fit. This includes calling people out when false statements are spewed across a public form.

A second note: to Mr. Montana, who wrote the post that started this thread, I do want to say one thing. While I disagree with what you said, and have enjoyed pointing out the inherent flaws in your argument, I AM impressed with your writing. You seem like an intelligent and talented, albeit uninformed and bigoted person. Kudos.

Devon A. Weir
aka DeviantMind

[DeviantMind]

very well, I'll use resources. For support on my argument, consult the Q'uran (or Koran, if you prefer Anglicized spellings), Patterns of Global Terrorism from 1996-present (which show that just as many terrorist attacks are by non-Islamic groups as there are by Islamic militants). Speak with any Muslims you may know in your community, and get first hand accounts on their views of the attacks.

If you prefer, I will have a properly formatted, annotated bibliography drawn up.

DM

[DeviantMind]

oh, for the most part I like what is being said. I Just disagreed with the lack of differentiation between "Islam" and "Arab."

The fact that many Arabs are Muslim has caused many to assume that all attacks are per Islamic belief.

And the reason I come, despite disagreeing... is because I can at least respect some of the people here, even if there are a few who cannot resist the temptation to be insulting.

[DeviantMind]

The Crusades were about obtaining land. The religious aspect was merely a pretense to garner support. It was political and expansionalist.

But if you would like another example, how does the Inquisition sound? Christianity at its best.

[texson66]

Again....the moose-limbs invaded europe first!The europeans wanted it back! the crusades and the inqusition were not founded on Christian principles...the jihads ARE founded on their "religious" principles... Dont confuse the tenents of a faith with the actions of its "followers"; Christianity says to love your neighbor as yourself; islam says if your neighbor is not a muslim, then when the time is right, kill him.

But basically , islam is not a religion anyway: its a world -wide movement for world domination!

[TheJFan]

I must admit that for a piece of narrow minded literature which could rival the foul bigotry that spews forth from Jerry Fallwell's mouth, that it is at the very least well-written.

However that's all it is. Apart from bigotry and hatred there's no more substance to his thoughts than Anna Nicole smith has common sense.

I find it odd that people refuse to acknowledge the atrocities committed by Christian and Jewish fundamentalists alike. Every religion has a radical group which inflicts pain and suffering on others. And to claim that one religion is inherently evil because of the actions of a radical group or two shows the lack of understanding, and the lack in depth of perception needed by people as a whole if we are to make decisive strides in securing the safety of -our- people. Not others.

It is perhaps time we refrain from sticking our nose into the business of others, and cease in telling other countries how they should live, how they should conduct their business like any other American. Our country's world presence isn't appreciated because of jealousy of what we have, it isn't appreciated because of what we don't have - which is a willingness to understand and accept that other cultures are fine the way they are.

What happened on 9-11 was most horrible. And those responsible -should- be punished. However, one has to wonder whether or not our country's attitude in involving itself in the affairs of others only to leave them in worse shape than they were in to begin with had something to do with it. Maybe, if we took responsibility for our own actions rather than rattle the sabre at others, we wouldn't be facing so much opposition in the first place.

[DeviantMind]

The Crusades sought to take away "the Holy land," as it were, in case you forgot.

And you may not be aware, but Islam considers Christians and Jews to be "People of the Book." It's the HUMAN variable of the equation that causes the problem

[blam]

You signed on to Free Republic today just to say that?

[DeviantMind]

When did the date of subscription begin to be more important than the substance of a person's statement, or their ability to hold constructive arguments and conversations?

[blam]

One of your deviant buddies, huh?