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To: Tailgunner Joe
thanx Taigunner Joe.

i agree with the article and what he means to write, although i would disagree with some of his definitions.

The athiestic mockery of altruism is most deceptive. What socialists think is their brand of altruism is really thinly disguised Egotism. It is the egotistical (and hypocritical) imposition that ***I*** must determine what ***YOU*** must do so that the others may be happy.

Those of us who are believers are commanded by our Lord to follow that form of altruism that would have us (voluntarily and in good concsience) treat others in the manner that we would want to be treated (in consideration of God, and nature) if the situations were reversed.

in debate, when the opposition defines the terms, the proponents can scarcely win the argument. in many areas that deal with thinking, reasoning, and perception we seem to have let the socialists redefine the terms.

since 9-11 i have resolved to be insistant on using that Standard of American English in philosophical, sociological, and political accord with our founding fathers. (Mr. Webster left us an incredible legacy of words well defined and pregnant with the principles of Life, Libery, and Justice.)

Hume, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Marx, Engels, Pound, ad naseum, can go to a very warm dark place. Their conceits woven into revised definitions of many languages have helped bring about tyrannical nightmares that have extinguished the life, liberty, and happiness of tens of millions.

Once again, i agree with what the author wrote but the proper label should be statist egotism, not altruism.

Please let me know if i am being too a.r.

thanx
freebounder
9 posted on 10/13/2002 3:09:38 PM PDT by freebounder
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To: freebounder
The athiestic mockery of altruism is most deceptive

When "altruism" is mandated, it ceases to be altruism. It is then slavery. People don't get that often. People who genuinely care about other people and would give of their time, money, etc. on their own often fail to make that connection. I know several people like that.

11 posted on 10/13/2002 4:56:46 PM PDT by MichiganConservative
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To: freebounder

The definition of altruism varies with what the person using it has as an agenda, and which one is the true form of altruism. To quote Webster:

 

Main Entry: al·tru·ism

Pronunciation: 'al-tru-"i-z&m

Etymology: French altruisme, from autrui other people, from Old French, oblique case form of autre other, from Latin alter

Date: 1853

1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others

2 : behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

 

What is flexible to interpretation is the motivation behind such an “unselfish regard”. For some, it may be the achievement of a socialist paradise, while for others it is simply following God’s orders. For yet others the façade of altruism is just a means of persuading average schmoes to sacrifice their well-being while getting nothing in return. Obviously, all three of these are very different, and have very different results.

 

Personally, I am not an atheist, but I do not think there is anything wrong with honest egoism (I think that is what you meant to say, as egoism = “a : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action b : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the valid end of all actions” whereas egotism = “a : excessive use of the first person singular personal pronoun b : the practice of talking about oneself too much 2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance”). Just as altruism can be perverted to fit the technical meaning while totally ignoring the intention behind it, the same has been done to egoism time and time again. A true egoist understands that only those who succeed on the fruits of their own labour and thought can be honestly happy with their lives, and that the consequential aiding of others that one finds deserving is a most acceptable and good use of the profits. Private charity is not ruled out by egoism, just coerced charity by the state or a similarly force-based inititiative.

 

I don’t know the extent of your familiarity with Hume or Voltaire, but I have studied them both at great length, and I would be profoundly interested in seeing what parallels you draw between them and Marx, Engels et al. Personally, unless I were dividing thinkers by those that adhere to Christian orthodoxy and those that don’t, I would find almost nothing in common between them, beyond Hume’s persuasive dialectics establishing before the existence of Darwin’s “Origin” that to be an atheist was not an irrational position, but also not necessarily a correct position. In particular I think you do Voltaire a grave disservice…he may have been far from perfect but his writings are that part of the enlightenment that advanced Western thought rather than setting it back. Perhaps you meant the reprehensible Rousseau, the father of Socialism and the Societal Will?

 

 

If you are really interested in the Liberal abuse of language, I highly recommend Friedrich Hayek's brilliant chapter on what he calls "weasel words" in his book "The Fatal Conceit". I think it might also give you a very interesting viewpoint on the nature of the human delusion that reality is subject to our fancies.

16 posted on 10/13/2002 9:19:58 PM PDT by Lizard_King
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