Border Patrol Agent Shot

El Paso Times ^ | Oct 13, 2002 | Jum Conley

[FryingPan101]

Borderland Sunday, October 13, 2002

A Border Patrol agent from Fort Hancock was shot in the leg about 4:20 p.m. Saturday by someone on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande while agents were pursuing smugglers 27 miles southeast of the Ysleta Port of Entry, Border Patrol officials said.

The female agent, whose name was not released, was expected to be released Saturday night from Thomason Hospital, El Paso Border Patrol spokesman Doug Mosier said.

The shooting took place after smugglers in a pickup "carrying at least 500 pounds of marijuana" were spotted, he said.

A pursuit began "and the smugglers drove their vehicle into the water and fled into Mexico on foot."

Even though the smugglers reached the safety of Mexico, Mosier said, "apparently a number of assailants were waiting on the Mexico side, and a sustained barrage of gunfire occurred."

The agent was struck by a bullet that penetrated the vehicle, he said. Agents returned fire.

This was thought to be the first shooting of an El Paso sector Border Patrol agent in about 13 years.

On Sept. 12, two El Paso FBI agents were severely beaten by train bandits during a sting operation in the Sunland Park-Anapra area.

[PuNcH]

Will you acknowledge that our lack of law enforcement and amnesties to illegals has created a crime wave of illegal immigration that is conducive to further criminal activity such as drug smuggling and terrorism?

[hchutch]

Only if you are willing to acknowledge that there are cases where deportation would be excessive.

I do not see how the rule of law would be threatened if we were to go with a probation and a fine in some cases as opposed to the maximum sentence.

[PuNcH]

Only if you are willing to acknowledge that there are cases where deportation would be excessive.

I'm more worried about the excessive burden placed on American citizens. This is what the rule of law is all about in the first place.

[hchutch]

Are you saying the rule of law is threatened anytime someone doesn't get the maximum sentence for a crime?

[B4Ranch]

Of course it can. However with the way our gov't has been changed where states send all the money to DC for distribution, it's not too hard to control a radical state. If civilians and state gov't decided to make the state border safe then DC would have to do some serious thinking. That could be the first steps of a revolution.

[PuNcH]

Are you saying the rule of law is threatened anytime someone doesn't get the maximum sentence for a crime?

NO, I'm saying we have a system in place that determines who gets the maximum sentence and that system doesnt depend on making deals with you.

Unless maybe your on the jury. : P

[hchutch]

Nor does it depend on listening to your demands, either.

Unless YOU are on the jury.

[PuNcH]

Nor does it depend on listening to your demands, either. Unless YOU are on the jury.

I demand that our laws be enforced. I shouldnt have to and I dont need to be anywhere near the courtroom.

[hchutch]

Oh, give me a break.

Again, is it any less of an enforcement of the law if the decision is made to use probation and a fine as opposed to the maximum sentence in this case?

[PuNcH]

this case?

I assume you mean just those who come to work illegally as there "only" crime. Well you tell me when I can break the same laws they do and get off with just probation if I get caught.

How exactly do you enforce probation on someone who isnt supposed to be here in the first place?

The law has to be enforced as it is enforced on American citizens. Sorry if that just seems excessive to you.

[hchutch]

"The law has to be enforced as it is enforced on American citizens."

And how many American citizens get probation or parole instead of the max for crimes in this country? Or a slap on the wrist, for that matter? Or for time served?

"Sorry if that just seems excessive to you."

The "deport `em all" approach of the Tancredobots is excessive. Certainly it makes more sense to focus on potential al-Qaeda terrorists than honor students. Any person with common sense would figure that the former is a greater threat than the latter. You also ought to punish the former in a more harsh manner than the latter.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I thought hchutch's "Tancredobots" and "making sense" remarks invited a little perspective."

I will say that the Tancredo-bots thing was a refreshing alternative to Bushbots, or Amen Corner for that matter.

"We tried that with #187"

The problem with Prop. #187, as far as I can tell, and I'm sure I'll get an argument here, is that it amounted to closing the barndoor shut after the cows got out.

You had already given away the house, and then you were coming back saying that these specific people could not gain access to programs they were already getting access to.

So, it got shot down by the politically correct.

"Without revisiting Plyler, and without the enactment of some enabling legislation from Congress, it's not easy to selectively deny entitlements to Illegals."

It is however, easier not to enact legislation which looks to specifically GIVE entitlements to illegals.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Here's a challenge for you.

I think I can safely assume that you would have all illegal immigrants immediately removed from the US if at all possible. A vast majority of these illegals are working, so these jobs would have to be filled, and we can't solve one problem without creating a bigger one.

Taking under consideration factors such as the decline in the worker-retiree ratio (needed to pay for social services for older Americans) due to the rapid retirement of the baby boomers, and the drop in the birth replacement levels for the US, where would you find workers to fill the immediate needs of employers?

Do you think that out-of-work tech jocks would jump on the farm and kitchen jobs?

How many people that you know would be happy with their children getting work picking oranges?

What is an acceptable wage for an American citizen working as a crop picker?

You may want to read the document I am linking you to before answering.

"To maintain the 2000 ratio between the working-age population (people between the ages of 20 and 64) and the older population (people ages 65 and older), the United States would need roughly 95 million more working-age persons in 2025, in addition to those already expected at current levels of immigration. In other words, if the entire working-age population of Mexico were to move to the United States in 2025, there still would not be enough people to restore the old-age dependency ratio of 2000."

http://www.prb.org/Content/ContentGroups/Report/025/ReportonAmericaGovtSpendng.pdf

[unixfox]

I've said it before but I will say it again.

If we can use the military to find a single sniper then why in the hell can't we use the military to patrol our borders?

It seems to me that millions of ILLEGALS invading this country is far more dangerous than this sniper. Don't get me wrong I think this sniper should be stoned to death in a public square when he is caught. However, the long term effect of these ILLEGALS is far greater than this incident will ever be.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The military isn't trained to do police work. The military is helping along the borders, and is allowed to train and offer equipment, but that's it. Posse Comitatus prevents them from going any further. This is a direct result of the aversion that the Founders had to the European monarch's use of their Armies to subjugate the people.

[unixfox]

Your right, but the MAIN thing the military SHOULD do is protect our borders and our country.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"Ah, go re-read. He and Poobah made you look silly with FACTS."

Gee, I take a day off and the Clintonian historians pop up repeatedly. I guess I just didn't use the NEA sponsored history books in my day and time like you and your buddies did.

"Nice English. Perhaps you should be deported."

So I made an error. Shoot me, I'm sure that in your Stalinist vision of Amerika you'd love that. The truth is that when you go to bed at night and do whatever it is you do with that Ted Kennedy poster on your ceiling (most normal Americans had Farrah Fawcett and quit by age 15, but we'll excuse you, you're a liberal buttkisser), you fantasize about "diversity". Gee, I think that's a great idea. Maybe you enjoy paying for it, but I do not. Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and go out and give 50% of your income directly to the illegals since the majority of us are having it taken from us at the point of a gun (known as the IRS, I'm sure you never have to pay taxes since the phrase "EITC" is prevelant in your version of American society). When you become perfect, please, please, come down off the mount and bring us your gold emobossed copy of "Das Kapital" and let us know what us evil capitalists are doing wrong. Oops, I forgot, this isn't about capitalism vs. socialism. This is about illegal immigration. Or is it????

[Nuke'm Glowing]

I apologize for so easily confusing the NEA victims in this discussion. What I meant to say was that there are millions of hard working honest Mexicans who have no desire to illegally cross into the United States and have a pride, a nationalistic zeal to improve their nation. There is also an equal number of lazy, inept, corrupt individuals whom you seem to defend, who wish to destroy our nation by engaging in activities which are clearly against the law, but in your communist view are easy to approve because it's "for the childruuuuuun" or whatever liberal buttkissing nonsense you support. You will not refute my facts, nor will I even attempt to find a copy of the NEA history book you dig yours up from. Continue your defense of the indefensible. But be thankful I do not own ranch land on the border. Because there would not be an illegal immigrant problem on my property. That's a gurantee.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"The rule of law is NOT endangered when one is given probation as opposed to a jail sentence."

I was wondering when the Clintonian versions of this discussion would advance to the forefront. Congratulations. I didn't know Carville's FR handle until now.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"Are you saying the rule of law is threatened anytime someone doesn't get the maximum sentence for a crime?"

Since when are non-citizens given the same rights as American citizens? I'm glad you're not in charge. You'd would have arrested the Congressmen who performed the impeachment duties and given Clinton 4 more years.