Lawmakers Urge FTC to Probe Sniper Weapon Sales

Reuters ^ | October 10, 2002

[John Jorsett]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Several Democratic lawmakers on Thursday urged the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the marketing of military sniper rifles to civilians, noting that such a weapon may be involved in the recent Washington area shootings.

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), and three fellow House Democrats wrote in a letter to the FTC that sniper weapons are different from standard hunting rifles because they are designed to strike a target from a distance.

"Their accuracy and range capabilities make these weapons among the most dangerous available today," the lawmakers said. "They can hit targets accurately one mile away and can inflict damage to targets up to four miles away."

Conyers noted that the FTC did a study of entertainment industry marketing practices and violence after the Columbine school shootings in 1999.

Gun control advocates gained momentum in Congress immediately after several publicized shootings in U.S. schools but foes of new controls were able to defeat the initiatives

[Black Agnes]

Makes sense about the round fractionating that way. Didn't the first reports last night re: Manassas say it was a shotgun blast and not the sniper's .223? NATO round would be equally interesting. Wonder what sort of Manchurian candidate the elites have cooked up for us this time...

[blackdog]

Every deer I ever hit with my rifle had the bullet go in a tiny hole and exit the other side from a big hole. The deer stands still, takes one or two steps in confusion and falls. The bullet has hit bone in many cases and does not fragment into lot's of tiny pieces, it just shatters the bone and keeps right on going. For some of you gun experts out there, just what are these exploding rounds?

[Deguello]

"Let's see what Sarah Brady's kid has been up to for the past 2 weeks..."

I wouldn't fret over it. I heard that she bought him a couple boxes of Remington Accelerators to go with it. Noted Ms Brady..."those little 22 bullets won't hurt anything".

***Foot Note: The Remington Accelerators for the 30-06 fire a .223 projectile encased in a 30 cal sabot. Velocity is a modest 4000 fps. Other than the sabot, no rifling marks on the projectile.

[blackdog]

Well, it is fundraising time around here! The liberals would gladly pay $25,000 a pop to shoot a freeper. I have tranfered your post to the DU message board. CHA-CHING!

[blackdog]

Those 30-06 accelerator rounds are for varmint hunting only. If you shot anything of signifigant mass it would be a cruel death. They don't do much damage to your average critter, just a slow bleeding to death or death by infection/sepsis.

[Sender]

The dims are so desperate that they will seize on this as a campaign issue for November...look for lots of anti-NRA and Ashcroft stuff coming out. More crap about cop-killer bullets and plastic guns, etc.

It's sad but the dims have been hoping for a case like this for a long time. They are probably sending thank you tarot cards to the killer right now. You can't demonize guns and gun owners without a good demon now and then.

[RLK]

More innocent people were killed by a rogue government at Waco than are being killed by this lunatic in Maryland. The differencees in the two situations is, the Idiot in Maryland leaves cards saying he's God while the rogue agens declared it through unrestrained arrogance. The second difference is, The Maryland lunatic will be brought to justice while the government lunatics were given promotions. Guns in the hands of the people don't bother me despite a rare kook, as much as guns in the hands of the government against a disarmed people.

[Deguello]

"Those frag rounds are not from the local Walmart"

Maybe not Walmart, but they are available in many gun shops. These are varmit rounds. Many use a poly carbonite tip (ballistic tip). They are made to expend all their energy into a critter. On coyotes, they will not exit but then my SP's won't either.

If you would like to see how well the Rem 223 works on varmits, find the video Exploding Varmits. Strange as it is, women like to watch it.

[blackdog]

HMMM.... Very interesting on the accelerator round. Are you implying that it is possible that a 30-06 is being used? The accelerator rounds I've seen are mostly plastic on the outside(I don't know why). I guess @ 4000fps they might fragment, but the guy I buy ammo from told me they don't knock down anything of any mass. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

.223 Varmint rounds have always been available in a form that would literally disintegrate on impact!

[Britton J Wingfield]

sniper weapons are different from standard hunting rifles because they are designed to strike a target from a distance.

Regular hunting rifles are meant to be used as clubs to bash prey over the head with.

[Deguello]

Yes!

[Deguello]

Nope. Just that someone brought up Brady and her kid and the possible. Shoot a sabot 223 round from a 30-06 and drop a Rem 223 brass?

I have rounds that shoot a .357 projectile from my 44 using a sobot. My sabots are nylon. The memory of the nylon comes back in a few hours, removing rifling marks once fired from the handgun.

Let's just keep Brady in mind when she makes a stink.

[taxcontrol]

The NATO designation for .223 is 5.56 - same round fired from the M16.

The "exploding" is incorrect. Unless the bullet is a hollow point packed with explosives, it will not explode. Rather, it fragments.

Any high velocity round (.223 is one) can fragment upon contact with a hard tissue (bone, belts, books, etc.) The stresses caused by the sudden diffence between the front end and the tail end of the bullet cause the lead (not a strong metal) to break or shatter. This is the fragmentation. From that point, the fragments are still traveling at high speed and can fragment further still.

The result is the wound cavity often has several irregular, broken pieces of lead. To a certain extent, this makes the bullet more deadly than a much larger deer round like .308 which even as a hollow point, will stay together.

I have a tricked out Remmington 700 varmit, 28" barrel. The bullet is 185 grain match grade and I get about 2500 fps muzzel velocity. That's d**n fast for .308. It is not unheard of for a .223 to be only 55 grains and moving at 3,000 fps.

I've see deer shot with .223 in Florida. It was a side shot through the left rib moving towards the right shoulder. The wound cavity was a small entrance hole and extended about 11". The average cavity diameter was 3". No exit wound. The bullet penetrated the left side, nicked a rib, went through the left lung, and fragments ended up cutting through some of the blood vessals leading to the heart. We picked 3 pieces of the bullet out of the meat. Most of the bullet was in tiny fragments in the wound cavity.

As to this particular case, there have been reports that the rounds have been modifed. Perhaps scored with a knife as was the technique during WWI?

Not necessary in my mind. .223 will break apart rather easy due to it's velocity, normally not jacketed, and use of lead in the bullet - often, lead only.

A more detailed explanation can be found at http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/military_bullet_wound_patterns.html

[Pat Bateman]

Yeah, I remember the 1 Mile target at Parris Island, the one way out there floating on the water...

[SauronOfMordor]

One other thing....The bullets being used which are(if what they said is true) are not available to the public. Those frag rounds are not from the local Walmart. Hunting rounds are designed to expand, but not to leave a few hundred chunks of shrapnel in the meat.

Walmart might not carry them, but "Cheaper than Dirt" does.

Glaser safety slug in .223 is a copper-jacketed round filled with birdshot. It will fragment quite nicely on impact

[IronJack]

three fellow House Democrats wrote in a letter to the FTC that sniper weapons are different from standard hunting rifles because they are designed to strike a target from a distance.

And this alone shows such ignorance as to bar these fools from any further debate on the issue.

[absalom01]

Not stupid, treacherous.

See this thread posted yesterday, in which the reprehensible Tom Diaz of the VPC absurdly links the .50 BMG to the current situation by 'creating a sniper culture.' That this is ridiculous is not important. What's important, and instructive, is how the Democrats in congress are taking their talking points directly from a VPC fax the day before.

[steve-b]

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan

Would somebody please arrest this ghoul for impersonating a human being?