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Some blacks say top Democrats take them for granted
AP | 10/08/02 | JOHN P. McALPIN

Posted on 10/09/2002 1:57:31 AM PDT by kattracks

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Democrats long used to getting heavy support from New Jersey's black voters are shutting blacks out from top political decisions and ignoring their concerns, activists charged.

Black church and community leaders said Democrats should not expect blacks to vote lockstep with party leaders, especially after the shake-up in the Senate race.

They said community leaders felt shut out of the party decision to replace Sen. Robert Torricelli, who resigned as a candidate after months of talk about his personal ethics.

Leaders also said they were troubled by McGreevey's demand that Amiri Baraka, who is black, resign as state poet laureate after some claimed a Sept. 11 memorial poem was offensive and anti-Semetic.

McGreevey and legislators have promised swift action on bills that would allow the governor to fire Baraka and cut him from his two-year, $10,000 appointment.

Sen. Ronald L. Rice, D-Essex, was one of several legislators who said he was disappointed that more black party leaders were not consulted about the legislation, or about the selection of a new U.S. Senate candidate last week.

"We don't want to be a bunch of placeholders," Rice said. "I'm a good Democrat but I also believe I've earned the right to disagree."

The Rev. Reginald Jackson, executive director of the Black Ministers Council, said party leaders want blacks to vote, but offer them no reasons to support them after the election ends.

"It's insulting, it's demeaning and believe it or not younger African Americans are not toeing that line," he said. "And I think those who are going to expect us to be there in the future are in for a rude awakening."

Gov. James E. McGreevey, a Democrat, refused to discuss issues involving the senate selection process and concerns raised by black voters on Tuesday.

Walter Fields, a Democratic political consultant, said blacks are being shut out because Democrats have determined they risk losing no political support in the black community if they exclude blacks from decisions.

Blacks now have no leverage as a voting group because they consistently support Democrats and give no sign of changing, Fields said.

That allows mostly white power brokers to assume support from black voters without offering anything, or helping blacks into positions where they can become statewide candidates, he said.

"You not only don't have a guy on the short list, you're not even in the room when the decision is going to be made," Fields said. "Then you're told to vote for this person just because you're a Democrat."

Dissent between black voters and Democrats in New Jersey mirrors similar disputes in other states that have been going on for decades, political scientists and analysts said.

"Is one of those underlying issues that often affect race relations in general," said David Bositis, a senior analyst at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington. "There are people and issues and decisions that involve African Americans and their leaders and there's often a white political leadership that doesn't take into consideration and consult with and listen to African Americans."

Roger Wilkins, a professor at George Mason University, said blacks who weren't consulted have a major complaint if the party is depending on black voters to save the Senate seat.

But black voters must realize what party leaders faced trying to replace Torricelli, who quit with five weeks to go, Wilkins said.

"They didn't want it to be ragged, they wanted to get Torricelli behind them and they wanted a name and a face that was credible," he said.

Not all black leaders are worried.

"I think it's at least a non-issue. It's an issue to divide the Democratic party and to bring some doubt among our black leadership," said the Rev. Stanley Justice, another member of the Black Ministers Council.

Copyright 2002 Associated Press. All rights reserved.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
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To: rdb3
Conservative blacks such as mhking and myself are seeking 10-20% more of the American black vote into the conservative column. When this occurs, the RATS are doomed.

That thought just made my day!

81 posted on 10/09/2002 7:16:40 AM PDT by Steve0113
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To: 7thson
You ask a mouthful. I'll try to answer as best I can (even though I'm not rdb3).
Friend, I tend to agree with you but I have a question or two to ask. Ehrlich is running for Gov. in MD. He has Mike Steele - a black conservative - for his running mate. What happens, if after the race, he does not get the 10-20% you are asking for?
Then we try again. Then we work again. And again, and again. And rather than 10-20%, take a look at any increase over 2000 as a victory, albeit a small one. It'll take a lot of small victories to add up over time.
Did you hear the tape of Harry Belafonte on Hannity and Colmes last night, where he basically called Colin Powell a house n*****, a term from slavery days? Now you have C Rice and C Powell in two extremely important Cabinet position, as well as the Ed Sec. Do the majority of blacks view these three as tokens?

Friend, I watched the debate between Townsend and Ehrlich. I was disgusted with the way the NAACP crowd acted toward Ehrlich and his family. How can these people be taken seriously when they act like this? Hope to hear from you

Yes - I've got a link to the streaming audio version of the interview on my site. Some see Powell and Rice as ellouts" and "uncle toms" and "lawn jockies," much as they see Justice Clarence Thomas and others. All of us who happen to be black and conservative have been called those things repeatedly, and we continue to have those epithets tossed our way today.

We move on. We forge forward. The name-calling is an attempt at marginalization by the left. We rattle their cage. We challenge the very core of their belief structure. It is drummed in by the "black leadership" that anyone like myself who steps out of the lock-step march with anything as little as a "just wait a minute" is misguided at best; outright evil generally, and usually much worse. In their eyes, we are not even worthy of punishment in the seventh circle of Danté's Hell. In their eyes, we are the embodiment of evil - Keyser Soze, Hannibal Lechter, Ted Bundy and Osama bin Laden all rolled into one.

In the minds of the masses of lemmings, what the NAACP says is gospel from on high. As a result, the behavior exhibited by those at the Maryland debate is OK. The ad hominums that Harry Belafonte exhibited on the KFMB radio program are OK. Pictures like the one depicting Clarence Thomas as a "lawn jockey" ornament on an early 1990's edition of the now-defunct Emerge magazine are OK. Why? Because it's OK to ridicule "evil." And until that "evil" connotation is removed, it will continue to be open season on conservative blacks.

Ironically, as many will tell you, in one-on-one situations, away from the emotional group-speak/think, many middle class, mainstream blacks will find themselves agreeing with us on many points. But, as someone was quoted in the movie, "Barbershop," 'Better not let Jesse Jackson hear you saying that.'

With time, with work, with patience, more blacks will begin to say 'F*** Jesse Jackson!" They will think for themselves. They will hear our message for what it is, and many will join us.

82 posted on 10/09/2002 7:19:45 AM PDT by mhking
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To: Steve0113
It's the absolute truth. Think about it. The RATS are nothing more than a motley assortment of various interest groups. Now, chip away at their "sure thing" (the black vote) and they can't survive.
83 posted on 10/09/2002 7:21:18 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: rdb3
Maybe they should send Colin Powell or Condi Rice to NJ to do some discreet campaigning. Or J.C. Watts. BTW, some of the most respected conservatives other than the above two are Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Ward Connerly, Larry Elder (Libertarian), Shelby Steele, and Joseph Perkins, all of whom I read regularly. They should be speaking to the NJ voters as well to show that black conservatives are simply some of the smartest people around, period. What are the chances, though, of them getting booed off the stage?
84 posted on 10/09/2002 7:22:13 AM PDT by alwaysconservative
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To: Steve0113
Highschoold voter registration for students turning 18:

Student: Which party do I choose?
Regisrar: Any one you want?
Student: What's the difference?
Regisrtar: Democrats tend to be people oriented, Republicans for the rich?
Student: So if I want to be rich I go Republican...
Registrar: No thats not what I said, I said Repblicans are only for rich people.
Student: I heard you, but I am not going to get rich by being poor, so I'll register as a republican.


85 posted on 10/09/2002 7:24:54 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: alwaysconservative
What are the chances, though, of them getting booed off the stage?

Depending on the audience and depending on the setting, I would say chances are about even. But that shouldn't dissuade us. I never said that the task would be easy. On the contrary - this is one of the most difficult tasks outside of the war effort that faces us in the near term. But it is one that we must undertake, lest we be dragged into the abyss by a team led by Al Gore and Al Sharpton.

I shudder at the thought.

86 posted on 10/09/2002 7:26:56 AM PDT by mhking
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To: alwaysconservative
What are the chances, though, of them getting booed off the stage?

Glad you brought that up! Check it, the chances are very close to 1 in probability that they would be booed off. Why? Because they are black!

Now let that marinate.




































That has seasoned long enough.

The reason why they would be booed off is that non-Democrat blacks (unless they are flaming Black Nationalist marxists) are already marginalized in the average black person's mind. Therefore, they would be less inclined to listen from the giddy-up.

But there is a way around this. That way is for conservative whites to speak in ways that the so-called black "leadership" doesn't. In a stealth-like mode, this image would stun and intrigue. I don't have time to get into the particulars at the moment, but I promise that I'll return a little later with the ins and outs of this. You'll see what I mean.

I'm now off to my paper chase. Ummm... That's money for those of you in Palm Beach County.

87 posted on 10/09/2002 7:34:03 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: kattracks
Some blacks say top Democrats take them for granted

Duh, you think?

88 posted on 10/09/2002 7:38:17 AM PDT by A2J
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To: rdb3
Well, you have it up to 85 posts and I predict past 100. I agree with you. For years, I could not imagine for the life of me why the Repub candidate for Mayor in DC does not go down into Anacostia and tell the people - "look around. Look at these buildings that have been destroyed and deserted since the 60's riots. Look at the hookers on the street. Look at the crime right under your noses. For decades you have had Dem leaders and this is what you get." They could go on explaining how crime could be cleaned up, how these buildings could be turned down and shops, businesses, and arts could take root. Explain the black renacience(sp) of Harlem before the Great Depression, and explain how that could take hold in Anacostia. Give the people something to hope for. But, in order to get that ball rolling, the candidates have to get in those neighborhoods and do that. And then deliver. How do we get the candidates to do that?
89 posted on 10/09/2002 7:39:13 AM PDT by 7thson
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To: mhking
I agree. It takes a special brand of courage to enter the fray, and most of the people running at the local level are too busy trying to consolidate their "known" or "assumed" support bases. I did think that Colin Powell exhibited that kind of courage when he faced down those protesters in Johannesburg with his trademark calm and adult demeanor.

Am now reading "The Quest for Cosmic Justice" by Thomas Sowell. I want to memorize every lovely, lovely word and thought, and wish EVERYONE who is interested in politics would read this. Hmmm. Maybe as a campaign tool. . .? LOL!

Your posts refresh my faith in the free-thinkers. Together, we can be unbeatable.
90 posted on 10/09/2002 7:39:16 AM PDT by alwaysconservative
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To: 7thson
".... black renacience(sp) of Harlem before the Great Depression, and explain how that could take hold in Anacostia. Give the people something to hope for. But, in order to get that ball rolling, the candidates have to get in those neighborhoods and do that. And then deliver. How do we get the candidates to do that? "

And the black voter will turn to the Jessie Jackson, Marion Barry, Al sharpton, de jour and say the republican is right lets get the democrats to fix this. And the democrat politico will say raise taxes because THEY let it get this bad. THEIR neighborhoods are nice and clean sot THEY owe US. And the blacks will agree with everything said and vote democrat.
91 posted on 10/09/2002 7:49:01 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: longtermmemmory
And the blacks will agree with everything said and vote democrat.

Well, thank you for solving all the ills of the world. Thank you very much!

Now that you're done marginalizing all black people, do you want to get back to reality and the conversation at hand?

92 posted on 10/09/2002 7:56:03 AM PDT by mhking
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To: mhking
Bump in my effort to get this over 100 comments. That guy failed to read my entire post and read what he wanted. The first part was to explain how blacks live in these crappy places and the Dems have been in charge. But the question still remains - when will Repubs start doing this? Or have they been doing this and I haven't been paying attention?
93 posted on 10/09/2002 8:00:50 AM PDT by 7thson
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To: rdb3
Answer me this, 'Tooth: Why can't John and Jane Q. Freeper understand this? Ten to twenty percent more of the black vote and you can yell, "Checkmate!" And this can be done without any pandering whatsoever.

Talk about this subject and it will garner few posts. Now, let a thread be started about something silly a black person says or does and you better get out of the way! Those threads always get 100+ posts. This one won't.

Watch.

Closing in on 100, Dude!

As for your question, "why can't John and Jane Q. Freeper understand this?" all I can do is play armchair psychologist.

I think John and Jane are loyal to a distinct fault, and loathe to say anything that would imply criticism of Republican leadership, because we know the RNC is too timid to take conservatism directly to blacks.

Ironically, in their quiet, quivering fear, the RNC is guilty of what George W. Bush called "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Very ironically.




94 posted on 10/09/2002 8:08:08 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: 7thson
Or have they been doing this and I haven't been paying attention?

It's happening on a grass-roots and very low level. There's no major national effort underway. But each of us who are conservative and black are moving in a small, even unwitting way.

As people see and hear us - politically active or otherwise - they are influenced. It took centuries for the trickle of the Colorado River to erode into the Grand Canyon. While I'm not waiting centuries, the analogy works. It all happens a little at a time. People see my writings - talk to me in person - hear me on the radio, and they stop to think. They ask questions. They move ever so slowly and ever so surely toward our camp.

It's happening in such a way that many do not see it. But it is happening.

95 posted on 10/09/2002 8:08:23 AM PDT by mhking
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To: Sabertooth
Ironically, in their quiet, quivering fear, the RNC is guilty of what George W. Bush called "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

The RNC doesn't know how to do much more than that.

You're right. They're afraid. Afraid of change on the parts of some. Afraid of stepping on toes on others. And yet, still more are afraid of anything they do being misconstrued.

Steps must be made. We will stumble. We will fall. But when we stumble and fall, we must get back up and step again, much as a baby learning to walk. In time we will succeed.

96 posted on 10/09/2002 8:11:47 AM PDT by mhking
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To: mhking
I am addressing this to you and rdb3.

First, let me say that on many issues, I am probably more ideologically conservative than most people on this forum.

Second, I regret the stereotypes and insults that both of you have had to endure from some nitwits on this thread. Some posters on this thread have shown that they are too stupid and ignorant to understand conservative ideas or philosophy. Those morons and cretins confuse their own racial bigotry with "conservatism".

Blacks have made a tremendous contribution to conservative thought over the years, from work done by old-timer black paleo-conservatives such as George Shyuler, Jay Parker, and Julia Brown, to black libertarians such as Walter Williams and Larry Elder, and to black neoconservatives such as Stanley Crouch and Thomas Sowell (okay, Dr. Sowell likes to think of himself as a libertarian, rather than a neocon).

While many blacks share the values of the Republican Party, part of the reason they do not vote GOP is because of a few toothless tobacco-chewing dregs among some whites, who resort to some of the anti-black racial stereotypes you saw on this thread. Most of those dregs are former urban Democrats and rural Democrats, who only joined the GOP over the last 30 years, and have damaged the great reputation of the party of Lincoln. That explains why even Asians vote over 60 percent for the Democrats, despite the fact that Asians have, by far, higher average incomes than whites.

And I think you are both pessimistic about the potential black vote for the GOP in state and local races, if there is effective outreach. For example, Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York, got 25 percent of the vote last year (okay, he may not be conservative). Sen. Kit Bond of Missouri, an arch-conservative, had an effective outreach to blacks a few years ago, and received 35 percent of the black vote in Missouri.

If Forrester plays his cards well in New Jersey.....who knows?
97 posted on 10/09/2002 8:15:37 AM PDT by jstone78
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To: rdb3; mhking
That way is for conservative whites to speak in ways that the so-called black "leadership" doesn't. In a stealth-like mode, this image would stun and intrigue. I don't have time to get into the particulars at the moment...

Can I suggest two?

1. Without insulting their intelligence.

2. With the assumption that Blacks want the same basic things for themselves and their families as whites do.

Nahhh... too risky! Democrats would be mean to us.




98 posted on 10/09/2002 8:20:28 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: mhking
Let me boil it down to the least common denominator. Which would you rather have, an 8% conservative black vote or a 10% conservative black vote next month? And to put it even more succinctly, if your attitude marked the difference between an 8% electorate and a 9% electorate, how would you feel? Don't answer yet - because if, during the 2000 campaign, it slipped the other way, from 8% to 7% - more specifically, in Florida and Tennessee, as a result of your views, do you realize that Al Gore would be leading us today as we consider war.

Are you ready for that?

Sorry, I can't type while I'm wringing my hands, as a loyal Republican soldier should.




99 posted on 10/09/2002 8:25:20 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: rdb3
100! Psyche!



100 posted on 10/09/2002 8:26:04 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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