[AdamSelene235]

They have reported that the most recent shooting was over 340 yards.

In that case, the selection of .223 is idiotic and the guy is not a "pro". Wind drift on .223 starts getting sketchy around 300m. No sniper with military training *chooses* .223.

[duk]

the news said the 13 year old was hit mid-section but the round did not exit. At what distance would this most likely indicate?

[MHGinTN]

The shell casing for the last shot on the teen was found at 200 yards. A professionally trained shooter wouldn't leave the casings, unless the 'professional' training was from a terrorist camp. The trickle of information allowed is a typical terrorist tactic, without taking public credit for the kills.

[Dixie republican]

A sniper with Quaeda military training will use anything that works.

[Travis McGee]

You are SO wrong about .223 for an URBAN sniper.

/1/ Flat shooting, easy and fast to sight and hit at his max ranges (under 400 yards).

/2/ In HP, a devastating round, if you think not, you have not seen any wounds caused by a 3,000fps varmint rifle.

/3/ Muzzle blast is MUCH less than .308 etc, for better getaway. Also, MUCH easier to suppress, either with a pro or homemade can suppressor, or by using a van etc as a macro suppressor.

/4/ Don't rule out a rifle caliber pistol such as a Contender, which can and do shoot 3" groups at 500 yards in good hands from a rest. Even an amateur with a Contender and an 8X scope could hit 18" human targets at 300 yards using an open car window as a rest. Piece of cake, 19 out of 20 boy scouts could shoot that well after 20 practice shots.

[joebuck]

"In that case, the selection of .223 is idiotic and the guy is not a "pro". Wind drift on .223 starts getting sketchy around 300m. No sniper with military training *chooses* .223."

Not necessarily so. If this guy(s) is a pro then he would want a weapon as absolutely sterile and untracable as possible. Perhaps this .223 was the "coldest" weapon that he could obtain which could still do the job he had in mind.

[clamper1797]

My 7mm Mag would be just fine at the range ... as would a .308 Mag

[Sonar5]

Since some inquired about the possible range of a rifle.

There is a lot of talk about whether this criminal or terrorist is using a scope. Who Knows. I state he/she/it does not need a scope.

As a Marine, I trained for two weeks in boot camp, and a week every year with an M16 A-1 and later an A-2 at 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters(Greater than 5 football fields). This was without any scope, and if someone is trained, they know all about windage and elevation adjustments on the rifle. Even an AR-15 Civilian "Home Defense Rifle". If the person is trained, she/he/it can adjust for current wind directions by calling the nearest airport reporting station, and then adjusting his sites, based on wind direction and speed.

At 500 Meters, (Greater than 5 football fields), After 4 days training, You don't need a scope. All you need is the prone position, a breathing technique such as BRASS. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Stop, Squeeze, bullseye sir.. Oops, it's all coming back to me now. ), and a sling for balance.

The person no doubt has zeroed his/her/it's weapon, only needing wind direction and approx wind speed speed to add clicks for distance. A simple Golf range finder will give approx distance as well.

I qualified expert all 4 times on the range and at 500 meters, We use a full size sillhouette, and I never missed. Stationary targets are the easiest. Logical pattern here.

The hardest was standing, but at kneeling, and prone, most can hit where they are aiming if they understand windage and elevation. It is not that difficult folks.

I hope they catch this miscreant soon, as the copycats are sure to show their ugly heads if they have not already.

As to concealed carry. I say this. What if someone concealing was not in the vicinity of the victim but was walking their dog near one of the parks, and observed or heard the shot. Not unrealistic, and possible. Maybe that is why the shooter chose an area which is not conceal legal. Just a differing viewpoint for those that stated it would not be feasable if the carrier was near the victim. They may not even hear the shot, or be able to determine the origin. But someone near the shooter would. Eventually, this shooter will error.

Here is a list of laws for states on Guns showing conceal carry approved and reciprocity agreements.

Map of states that allow.
http://www.concealcarry.org/ccwmap.htm

Go to site, choose state, and current laws come up.
http://www.packing.org/

Here are Maryland's:
http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/maryland

You pretty much have to be a LEO to carry. Convenient for Murders, catastrophic to law abiding citizens.

One more note:

Chicago has a NO Hand Gun Law.
Chicago is the Murder Capital of The United States.

I rest my case.

Regards,
Joe

[Sender]

I can't believe you guys are having a deep discussion about what caliber this shooter would choose. Obviously the .223 was a pretty good choice from the shooters point of view since he's not missing and the victims are missing large chunks of their anatomy. I daresay the score wouldn't be much different if he chose a large magnum or whatever. Doesn't matter. People are terrified. He got away.

[wcbtinman]

",,,the selection of .223 is idiotic..."

Not necessarily. Aftermarket accessories and ammunition have made the .223 caliber rifle a very effective weapon inside of 500 meters. They are accurate at greater ranges, but lack the knockdown power of larger calibers, such as the .308.

However, the .223 due to the light weight of both the ammo and the weapon system(the M-16 or the civilian AR-15) make an ideal urban weapon, and one particularly suited to the tactics of this shooter.

[PsyOp]

"No sniper with military training *chooses* .223."

One does not need to be a sniper. Standard military training using the M-16 (.223 cal.) requires Army soldiers to hit a half-Silhouette at 400m with iron sights, and Marines qualify out to 500m with iron sights. If this guy is using a scope he can easily hit at 300 to 400 meter range if he has had any practice - further even.

Unless the winds are very high, wind drift will not be a big factor since we're not talking about match shooting - just hitting the center of mass. In the case of the school kid he hit center of mass, but the kid lived, probably because of the use of the .223 round rather than something heavier. A miss of a few inches with the smaller round saved a life. With the heavier round, a few inches would not have mattered. In any case, the shooter's "miss" created just as much outrage as if he had killed his intended victim.

You are right, however, that the .223 round is not the ideal sniper round, but it is adequate at the ranges this guy is probably going to be shooting at in an urban environment.