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To: Whilom
The Supreme Court can decide that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms only as part of the militia; in other words, the judges decide what the Constitution means. Further, the Constitution provides a way for the Constitution itself to be changed by amendment. A constitutional amendment through the elected (where numbers count) Congress and a vote of 3/4 of the states or through a Constitutional Convention (membership appointed by the state legislatures, where numbers count) could remove the Second Amendment and replace it with "no citizen has the right to keep or bear arms." That would be devastating, but it still would be "legal" and within our constitutional process.
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Good grief.

You have completely ignored one of the founding principles of our government. -- That we have unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.
This concept is addressed in the Bill of Rights twice, because it was being ignored & violated by states after the civil war, under the erroneous USSC 1833 decision, Barron v Baltimore.
Our basic inalienable rights can not be infringed by further amendments.
They are inherant natural rights, that are not, and never have been subject to the majority type rule that you imagine our constitution allows.
527 posted on 10/09/2002 6:11:54 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
You have completely ignored one of the founding principles of our government. -- That we have unalienable rights to life, liberty and property. This concept is addressed in the Bill of Rights twice, because it was being ignored & violated by states after the civil war, under the erroneous USSC 1833 decision, Barron v Baltimore. Our basic inalienable rights can not be infringed by further amendments. They are inherant natural rights, that are not, and never have been subject to the majority type rule that you imagine our constitution allows.

Far from ignoring our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property, they are at the core of my comments. If we have "inherent natural rights," the only way to make them meaningful in ways that can be applied to ordinary lives. To argue that one "natural right" is an "inalienable" right to life secured by the Constitution makes it unconstitutional for a state to execute legally any individual for whatever cause. Such is not unconstitutional. How do I know that? Read the Supreme Court's rulings on the death penalty -- unconstitutional at one point, constitutional now. You may reply that Supreme Court rulings merely make some conduct "legal," not "right" or even constitutional. It's your inalienable right, I suppose, to hold whatever views you prefer but you have no inalienable right to determine what the Constitution means. We have chosen a process for that, framed by the Constitution and continually tested, both in politics and law. It's that process I defend.

Similarly, "liberty" can be construed by an individual to mean that he has the inalienable right to do as he pleases -- run over pedestrians on public streets, shoot his neighbor, burn down city hall. He doesn't. There is lawful conduct and unlawful conduct, both of which in our country are determined by the processes of a representative democracy as framed by the Constitution.

The same is true of the rights to property. An individual may interpret that to mean that the community has no constitutional authority to pass a law against his factory spewing toxic chemicals into a public stream. Toxic chemicals were not mentioned in the Constitution, he might say, and therefore no law one way or the other can be made concerning them. Not so. How do I know that? That and similar disputes have been played out in the political and judicial processes which, through a representative democracy, define "Constitutional rights" at any particular time. Spew toxic chemicals into a public stream and you may be arrested, tried, and punished.

532 posted on 10/13/2002 4:08:40 PM PDT by Whilom
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