Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Official Price Tag on Class Size Initiative - Florida Tax Watch (BAD IDEA, McBride!)
FloridaTaxWatch.org ^ | July 2002 | Kurt Wenner, FTW Staff

Posted on 09/26/2002 8:24:47 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-39 last
To: js1138
Right. That's how we ended up with a mandated high speed rail system....
21 posted on 09/26/2002 2:12:37 PM PDT by PogySailor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
And didn't the SCOFLA rule that the cost estimates couldn't be but on the ballot?
22 posted on 09/26/2002 2:14:08 PM PDT by PogySailor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl

23 posted on 09/26/2002 2:31:11 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Would someone please explain to me what part of Florida schools or education that the Lotto purports to support? I am being very series now...Been here four years, and I still don't get it.
24 posted on 09/26/2002 3:30:45 PM PDT by NautiNurse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PogySailor
Pogy, I'm not sure about the SCOFLAW ruling. Doing some basic research I was surprised to learn that editorials have been written for years about this national scam. Have you seen any articles in your local Florida papers pointing out the failed facts about the "class size' amendment? I haven't here in SW Fla. What's "news" if this isn't?

Political Allure of education (class size is down, BUT it isn't helping), National Center for Policy Analysis, 1998


Push for smaller class size: still no proof, California, Nevada, Maryland....1999.
While the academic benefits of class-size reduction are still in dispute, there is one result that cannot be denied: the California Teachers Association has exactly 37,584 more members than it had three years ago.
The Hype Over Class Sizes (1999):

Class-size reduction hurts lower income districts as teachers flee to meet the demand in more affluent districts.

It's led to an increase in more poorly trained teachers. The number of non-credentialed teachers has jumped from almost zero in 1995 to 12% in 1997.

It's stuck low-income districts with big bills, drained other programs and made crowded facilities worse.

What's more, the California program even at its highest funding levels will still not reach the level of the Tennessee program. California is shooting for classes of about 20 students each. Tennessee had about 15.

But all this debate about class size is moot. No study is going to be able to definitively answer the question. There are just too many variables. Take South Korea. It leads the world in mathematics achievement among fourth graders. Average class size: 43.


THE SCHOOL CLASS SIZE POWER GRAB (1999):

THE SCHOOL CLASS SIZE POWER GRAB

According to published reports, the one thing President Clinton is adamant about in the current budget negotiations is inclusion of his "100,000 new teachers" proposal. In a two-year propaganda blitz, reducing class size (the number of students per teacher) has been touted as one of the single most important factors in improving the quality of public education. In reality the proposal is a ploy to make a quantum leap in federal control of K-12 education in the public schools. Here's how it works.

First the public had to be convinced that reducing class size is critical to providing a "better" quality of education for the nation's students. Phony statistics are presented purporting to show that schools with smaller class sizes have better test results. The statistics assume that class size is the only factor involved in higher test results. That is patently untrue. What is taught, and how it is taught, are much more important than class size alone. Even if the proper subjects are included in the curriculum, if they are presented in an incomprehensible way, students will have poor test scores regardless of class size.

Another part of the scam is how class size; e.g. the ratio of "teachers" to students is calculated. In many schools a teacher has one or two "teaching assistants" in the classroom. Should these assistants be included in the calculation of class size? In many districts they are not.


From this year's Salon, of all places:
Money also matters [How CA's landmark law to reduce class size was a disaster for poor students]

So, not only does this amendment cost Florida voters big $$$, instead of helping children, it hurts those who need help the most. The only ones benefiting are the teachers' unions, the Democratic Party elites. It's a scheme. It's a crime. It's fraud, theft, money laundering (teacher's unions -> DNC), with the press as willing accomplices, imho.

25 posted on 09/26/2002 3:35:36 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: NautiNurse
I think the lottery money is in the same lockbox as the tobacco settlement. Probably under Bob Butterworth's mattress. (^:
26 posted on 09/26/2002 3:42:59 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: MeeknMing
My "Subject line": Why didn't we know long ago? "Class size" is a crock! (I need a tiny crocodile pic (^:)

Florida press e-mail links:

http://209.26.39.197/CS/customerserv.php?news_contacts=news_contacts.inc (fort myers news-press, e-mail links)
 editor.letters@heraldtribune.com (sarasota herald tribune)
letters@naplesnews.com (naples news)
dklement@bradentonherald.com (bradenton herald)
tribletters@tampatrib.com (tampa tribune)
tdedit@talden.com (tallahassee democrat)
bcotterel@taldem.com (good guy at the t.d.)
http://www.opedletters.com/cfm/state.cfm?StateAbbrev=FL (multiple florida press e-mail links)
http://www.rpof.org/rcs/rpof/pub_rpof/web_rpof/fld_otherpages/pg_lte_20011127/index.jsp(FlaGOP multi-link, press)
 

27 posted on 09/26/2002 3:49:59 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
.....I need a tiny crocodile pic (^:

How tiny???......




28 posted on 09/26/2002 4:11:28 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peter.dolphin/Crocodile.jpg
29 posted on 09/26/2002 4:18:12 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
http://www.alekhine.com/Crocodile.jpg

More Crocs

30 posted on 09/26/2002 4:22:01 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
RC, There was an piece a few weeks back in the Tampa Tribune, specifically asking questions about funding, where are the teachers going to come from since the county is CURRENTLY understaffed with classroom teachers, etc. But this far out, they aren't doing many articles/editorials on much, other than talking up McBride.
31 posted on 09/26/2002 5:18:19 PM PDT by PogySailor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: MeeknMing
Thanks, Meekie! I was over at summer's awesome thread Florida Democrats Unite Behind Jeb [FL's Dem Leader Dumping McLawyer!] What a great thread. (^:

Rudyard Kipling
knew about lawyers...and crocodiles.

32 posted on 09/26/2002 5:35:25 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: PogySailor
There was an piece a few weeks back in the Tampa Tribune..

Well, that's a start. Thanks, Pogy. I know that there are members of the local editorial boards who are just waiting for the opportunity to tell our side. A young man at our local NBC station during a Janet Reno "Do the Right Thing" event (really!) was so glad that I called to protest Ms. Reno's involvement with anything related to children. That night, 3 others called to complain (in our area of ~ half million). Usually, I'm the only one (or so I'm told). Republicans don't even think of complaining....being responsible, realistic sorts mostly...a disadvantage in politics when the opposition is the VLWC.

33 posted on 09/26/2002 5:42:54 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
This is going to pass by a wide margin.

There is nothing that can be gained politically by coming out against it, hence Jebs adoption of his own plan to decrease class size.

In spite of Jebs proposal, he STILL will be accused of being against education in rat commercial after commercial, and he very well may lose the election because of it.

Assuming he is able to survive the onslaught of socialist teacher union lies and wholsesale voter fraud, these ammendments will be repealed in a future election, as will the high speed train ammendment.

The key is putting the savings to the average taxpayer in the repeal ammendment language.

Who isn't going to vote for a tax cut for themselves?

34 posted on 09/26/2002 6:46:34 PM PDT by Rome2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Sure, thanks for asking
35 posted on 09/26/2002 6:52:59 PM PDT by JZoback
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Rome2000
Are you sure, Rome2000? I do enjoy occasionally beating my head against the wall, but this bill's passage would warrant a posse visit to the local paper..with tar and feathers.

Jeb's record on education is solid and unassailable. This amendment's even being on our ballot is an indictment of the Florida newsmedia, the Democratic Party and Bill McBride. Bottom line, if Floridians knew the truth...this amendment would tank.

36 posted on 09/26/2002 7:25:49 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Ballot initiatives and the ability to rather easily get constituional ammendments placed on the ballot is a double edged sword.

They're great most of the time for protecting citizens rights and pocketbooks but open to abuse by dishonest socialist Democrat jackass party members, who try to get massive tax increases passed in the guise of "education" or "children".

When the price tag for future ballot intiatives and ammendments is included in the ballot language,(something that of course the socialist democrats oppose), the subterfuge will stop.

37 posted on 09/26/2002 7:57:57 PM PDT by Rome2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Ah, that's good news !
38 posted on 09/27/2002 12:20:05 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

The actual amendment 9 that appears on the state's ballot does not mention the cost or small number of students. It doesn't tell the voters that limits are 18 students for Pre-K to grade 3, 22 students for grades 4 through 8 and 25 students for grades 9 through12, or that these limits have proven to make no substantial difference in the children's learning.
39 posted on 10/13/2002 8:01:46 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-39 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson