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To: ccmay
There was a question mark behind my question there to question what you were trying to make in way of a point. the point I was making is that indoctrinated people generally haven't a clue about the isidorean decretals or Gracian because they only get the "traditional" history and are told the world hates them and trys to slander them with such things as isidore and Gracian.. LOL.

Isidore and Gracian are both collections of Known and proven forgeries and frauds that were created for the purpose of establishing the preiminence of the Roman Church over the entirety of what then called itself the 'Catholic' church. Rome was trying to sieze control of the church to a central point by fraud and succeeded in doing so. Sad thing is that much of what Roman Catholics know as Canon Law today which pretended to come down from the Apostles is actually a batch of forgeries that were dubbed by caveat into church law and the Law of the Empire. Eight of those laws formed the basis of the stance that led to the inquisitions and the crusades - the notion that killing heretics was Godly derived from thence. But many of the documents are web published in part or in full. And much is available on the web about them. The decretals included a well known fraud called the Donation of Constantine that setup the churchs' one time "Temporal" authority over the empire. It was combined with the rest of the documents and was used to dupe parts of the church that didn't know any better into believing Rome and bowing to their claims, and further was used to dupe Europe into bowing to their claims of authority over the empire. Their reign in Europe which caused the Dark ages is a result of fraud.

When the documents were finally proven frauds publicly in the mid 1500s (the first time was quashed and only internal) the church clung to portions of them fastidiously because the damage to be done by removing so much would be the end of them. No two ways about it. The damage done by what they did admit was deep enough. It's the reason why there is a Vatican state now within Italy rather than a larger state controlled by them. Once exposed they lost all authority and their claims to land and empire were removed bit by bit until the Italian milatary finally removed them by force from the control of Itallian lands in the 1800s. They wouldn't make things right themselves so after 300 years, italy did it for them. Those documents are collectively viewed as the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind. But you don't read about it in your history books at school. Cause telling the truth just isn't in vogue. They don't tell you my great uncle was drunk and spilled acid in his lap bacause of it causing Watson to hear quite different across the phone the first time than what is commonly reported in school. They don't want kids to know a great man had a drink or that he cussed. So they manipulate the story fit their gameplan. If you want the truth, you have to grow up a few years down the line and go looking for it yourself. Or in my case, just ask the family LOL.

It's also worth noting that one of their great philosophers was duped by these documents and upon finding out, he withdrew his written support of them and actually went and joined another sect. But we don't like to talk about things such as that either..

But to make this point again, this isn't about religion. Or shall we go back to my remarks and note that I also invoked wwii germany. Perhaps my comments belong in a strategy and warfare sub because I mentioned WWII germany. Or because I discussed early battle tactics. Perhaps it belongs in an archeology sub because I mentioned early Egypt. Perhaps it belongs in sub x.... The original article touches on religion and philosophy so perhaps it belongs in the religion sub. See. People can get upset when some things are brought up that paint their views in a bad light. If the truth hurts, it isn't a reason not to tell the truth. And I'm on topic. The topic of the article was how history is manipulated by some to the point of defrauding people with it. I merely expanded upon that. If it gets your nose out of joint. That's not my problem; but, it makes me curious about why. LOL. You aren't perchance telling me that it's ok for Catholics to lie about history for their ends because they are a religious group, are you?

52 posted on 09/28/2002 1:55:46 AM PDT by Havoc
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To: Havoc
entertaining read
54 posted on 09/28/2002 2:06:09 AM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: Havoc
BUMP for an interesting thread, and a very interesting and well written book; which I have read and quoted from on FR.
55 posted on 09/28/2002 2:20:30 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: Havoc
Those documents are collectively viewed as the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind.

No, that would be the Koran (Quran).

You question whether there is any support for the use of force to turn the heathen to Christ. I would agree with that question and suggest the answer to be in the negative. This is what happens when men try to bend revealed truth to their flawed reason.

However, the Koran explicitly supports that God approves of this. That, to me, is the great fraund. And the greater modern threat.

62 posted on 09/28/2002 2:15:02 PM PDT by FormerLib
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