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Spanking: Discipline or violence
Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 23 Sep | Ilene Olson

Posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB

CHEYENNE – Spare the rod and spoil the child?

Not so, childhood experts say. Their version: Spare the rod to promote positive, effective discipline and prevent violent behavior by children.

“I really can’t say spanking is ever a good thing to do,” said Sherri Rubeck, who teaches common-sense parenting for Southeast Wyoming Mental Health.

“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”

Ronn Jeffrey, director of Youth Alternatives, said, “Spanking is something adults do when they can’t think of anything else to do. It’s a form of negative reinforcement. Spanking just proves you’re bigger and stronger.

“It is not usually done out of a great deal of thought about changing a child’s behavior,” he added. “It’s done more out of frustration or anger and has only a temporary effect. With other forms of punishment, you have to think about what you’re doing.”

But single parent Johnny Jones said he believes spanking can be effective in disciplining younger children when used appropriately.

Jones leads a single-parenting group in Cheyenne, in which single and divorced parents meet to help each other cope with parental challenges.

Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.

He also has used a spanking as a backup when two or three attempts at another form of discipline don’t work.

“I don’t have half the problems or concerns (with his children’s behavior) that other parents have who do not now, nor have they ever, spanked their children,” he said. “They have problems at home and school.”

Jones said he does not believe spanking, when used appropriately, contributes to violent behavior in children.

“When I grew up, and before then, spanking was recommended,” he said. “The way children acted then, compared to the behaviors we have now, is completely night and day. We didn’t have the school violence and shootings we do now.

“Alternative forms of discipline don’t always work,” he added. “I believe that contributes to a lot of the problems we have. Look at our society, look at newspapers, what’s happening at school. Talk to a teacher who is about to retire about the differences in behavior (when spanking was used to discipline students) as opposed to students now.”

Laramie County School District 1 Superintendent Dan Stephan said the LCSD1 board revoked corporal punishment, including spanking, in 1984.

“Educationally, that is sound judgment,” he said. “Our board decided clear back then that it was not prudent behavior to use that as punishment. There are other methods to discipline students.

“If we have behavior that is not appropriate by a student, we will work with the parents and the student in regard to what the desired behavior would be … rather than modeling something that is probably less than productive.”

But Dwayne Trembly, who taught math at McCormick Junior High for years before retiring in 1998, agreed with Jones.

When spanking was revoked in the district, “We saw an immediate change with lack of discipline,” he said. “We’ve been struggling ever since.

“Appropriate spanking promotes discipline – with heavy emphasis on appropriate. That is the key word,” he added.

Trembly said what happens after the spanking is more important than the spanking itself.

“When a child needs discipline, it needs to be immediate, then they need a positive build-up afterward. Leave them in a positive state. Never leave them down. If you do that, you lose discipline.”

Jones also urged caution regarding the way spankings are delivered.

“I think (spanking) instills a line of respect in moderation – but I can’t stress enough in moderation,” he said. “Everything does not merit a spanking.

“A spanking should be done with an open hand on the behind, not a slap in the face.

“I don’t believe in using foreign objects, such as belts, switches, spoons and so forth. (With those) you do not know how much force you’re delivering. If you can’t do it with your hand because it’s hurting your hand, imagine how it feels to that child.”

If used inappropriately or excessively, spanking could cause children to become introverted out of fear of being struck, Jones said.

Spanking should decline and eventually end as a child gets older, he said.

“Once they get beyond 10 or 11, that child is pretty much set in their ways,” he said. “They are either going to continue on in their behavior, or they already know the consequences of their behavior.”

As children approach their teenage years, other deterrents, such as taking away television or computer privileges, work better, Jones said.

“My daughter has told me several times that she wished I would spank her as opposed to taking away her telephone,” he said.

Jeffrey said he understands that some parents feel the need to use spanking as a form of punishment.

“I’m not going to condemn every parent who has ever spanked a child,” he said. “A parent who believes in spanking is not a terrible person.

“Was I spanked? Yeah. Were most of us? Probably. But I will tell you it should be the last line of discipline. The hand should be used, and it should be on the bottom. It should never be done with any object.”

Jeffrey referred to last week’s televised videotape of a young woman who put her daughter in a van and began spanking her. The spankings quickly escalated to what appeared to be a brutal beating.

“That is an indication that the person doing the spanking is usually out of control,” he said.

Jeffrey cited other problems with using spanking as a primary disciplinary measure.

“If you use physical ways of controlling your children, what happens when your kid gets bigger than you? If that’s the only method you’ve developed to control their behavior, you’re kind of in bad shape.”

Rubeck said parents need to retrain themselves to use more positive ways to discipline their children. That can be accomplished by taking a parenting class or reading good how-to books on changing children’s behavior.

Some good disciplinary methods include time-out, praising children when they do something good and revoking privileges as a consequence of bad behavior, Rubeck said.

When working with children, parents need to give “kid reasons” as incentive to behave, she added.

“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”

It also is helpful to involve the children in the process when deciding what their punishment should be.

“If you let the child set the consequences, they’ll usually make the punishment worse than that parent would. Maybe that’s an indication that we need to be nicer, if they feel they’re deserving of such terrible punishment.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Wyoming
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To: Neckbone
I totally agree with you, but there are children who do not respond to tone of voice or reason. They are only concerned about their own hides. Kids need to be taken on a case-by-case basis.
101 posted on 09/23/2002 8:54:07 PM PDT by Marie
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To: Crusher138
It depends on the child. At least A, maybe A and C.

You can never give C without A.

102 posted on 09/23/2002 9:05:29 PM PDT by Marie
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To: Maceman
You are lucky. Some children are easy...some are not.
103 posted on 09/23/2002 9:52:42 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: weikel
You are wise for 20 if you already realize that....for the most part.
104 posted on 09/23/2002 9:54:16 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Neckbone
My two daughters could be reasoned with....actually "convinced quickly" is a better phrase, you don't reason with 2-5 year olds. A stern glance or maybe a threat was usually enough. Together they may have been swatted with a hand on their bottom less than 10 times in their lives.

My 2.5 year old manchild has a will that is something to be amazed at. I wish I could reason with him in my dreams. Spanking is the ONLY thing that will get him to behave or stop doing something that may hurt him or someone else. He can turn from lovable cuddler to Jack Nicholson in the Shining rather quickly. Power he understands. Love as well. A modest butt spanking never hurt anyone permanently except those born quite fragile either physically or emotionally.

JMHO. Kudos to all you brave souls who manange without spanking particularly a manchild. You are all a better man than I.
105 posted on 09/23/2002 10:02:23 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: two23
They ignore because they are either afraid or they are trying the "silent reasoning" approach...lol
106 posted on 09/23/2002 10:03:21 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: SLB
BTTT....damn straight ....everyone was more well mannered then.

Have you read any of Dobson's books on this subject?
107 posted on 09/23/2002 10:04:41 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Eagle Eye
BTTT
108 posted on 09/23/2002 10:05:18 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: RobRoy
You're Jewish and you spanked?

I salute you! When I lived in Manhattan, nearly all the Jews I knew with kids abhored spanking. Their kids were very indulged. Maybe it was just a Manhhattan Syndrome.
109 posted on 09/23/2002 10:07:43 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: savedbygrace
Dobson also says you should have an implement of discipline after the toddler years.

I spank. I'm reluctant to use a belt if need be when he is older. I never used anything but my hand on my girls...rarely, they simply didn't need it. Ping pong paddles used to be in frequent use when I was a boy, of course back then we didn't have all this touchy feely stuff about spanking. Everyone was spanked or worse...except maybe really meek little girls or very sissy little boys.
110 posted on 09/23/2002 10:15:32 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: two23
You could offer to help the frustrated mom with her grocery bags while she tends to the business of dealing with the hellion.

I would never interfere beyond that unless the child has pulled a butcher knife off the rack or something of an emergency nature like that.
111 posted on 09/23/2002 10:18:18 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Texas_Jarhead
Your honesty is refreshing. Many of the well meaning pacifists on this thread have probably never raised a Tasmanian Devil. When I had my daughters, I thought it was so easy....how couldn't anyone not control their children.

LOL...G-d had a big suprise in store for me. Another manchild is due anytime between now and November as well.

Pray for me....I'm only sort of joking.
112 posted on 09/23/2002 10:22:04 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: TXBubba
Bump to you mom.
113 posted on 09/23/2002 10:22:48 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Spirited
Nice reply. I couldn't agree more.
114 posted on 09/23/2002 10:24:05 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Bisesi
You are very right....like bullseye right.
115 posted on 09/23/2002 10:25:02 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: georgiabelle
Good for you!
116 posted on 09/23/2002 10:27:32 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Marie
Your son and mine must share notes...lol
117 posted on 09/23/2002 10:29:27 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: All
It's been a nice thread by myself....lol...I'm done, I feel better now.
118 posted on 09/23/2002 10:31:23 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
I always say that my daughter made me a mother, but my son made me a Muth-ah! ;-)

I remember sitting one relaxed evening with my husband while our daughter played quietly with her toys. She was almost a year old. I actually said, "You know, honey, this parenting thing isn't so hard. I think we're ready to have another baby." He looked at our daughter, smiled and said, "Yeah, I think we're ready. Parenting really is easier than I thought it would be."

Bwhahahahaha!!!!!!

Ten months later... here comes my son. He's like Tigger, only with more bounce! LOL

119 posted on 09/23/2002 11:33:09 PM PDT by Marie
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To: wardaddy
When my girl was little, the shoe stores gave out balloons on plasticised rope-sticks. Those were great as a rod. Very flexible, not too thick, and they didn't get brittle with age. My second choice was an appropriately sized branch from a tree. Do file off the rough places, though.

I would never use my hands to hit a child. Never.

And I would never use a belt, or anything other than what God tells us to use. A rod.

A rod will never leave any lasting injuries, no matter how hard you hit with it (as long as you only hit on the fleshy part of the buttocks.)

Get a copy of Fugate's book, What the Bible Says about Child Training. He makes a great deal of sense and lays out the entire plan for child training, not just the part about the rod.

120 posted on 09/24/2002 5:35:32 AM PDT by savedbygrace
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