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To: Paul Atreides
I absolutely agree with you. As a parent who on more than one occasion has swatted my kids' behinds when they've deserved it, I can tell you that what I saw on that video was absolutely reprehensible and the woman should be placed under the jail, for a long time. There's a difference between disciplinary spanking and abuse. And the fact that people are actually downloading this video and trying to analyze it frame by frame to prove that this is some eeeevilll liberal government plot to take someone's kid away is one example of why we conservatives are looked upon the way we are in some quarters. And it shows the disconnect between the libertarian and conservative wings on the right that IMHO is always going to threaten us ever being able to do anything to change this country from the right. Flame me as a liberal sheeple if you want to, but I never have and never will support the notion that government has no role to play in any of our lives, including the protection of children in instances like this. What I believe is that government should not try to ensure equality of outcomes or fairness (because it usually turns out to be arbitrarily unfair) or try to be the primary entity for meeting its citizens' basic everyday needs 365/24/7 cradle to grave. And I never have and never will support the concepts of libertarianism, because I believe that society, government, whatever does have the right to place limits on personal behavior. The extent of those limits is certainly open to debate but the right to place the limits at all IMHO is not. And I certainly think the government has the right to keep this piece of flotsam and jetsam from mugging a four-year-old.
206 posted on 09/21/2002 10:17:01 AM PDT by GB
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To: GB
If there is anything that non-liberals are criticized for, it is that we see things in black and white. If there was ever a black and white issue, this is it. I don't care what political persuasion, religion, race, whatever the woman is, the abuse of a child is reprehensible. This is no rebellious teen attacking her mother. This is a woman, who tried to pull some sort of scam on the store, was furious on the way to the vehicle, and lit in on the poor child, AFTER looking around to make sure that no one was watching. I was spanked as a child, when I deserved it. I believe in spanking as a form of discipline. But, I was never abused. And, I know abuse when I see it. This was abuse.
208 posted on 09/21/2002 10:24:11 AM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: GB
"it shows the disconnect between the libertarian and conservative wings"

There is no difference on how libertarians and social conservatives view this crime. The primary justification for government to exist at all is to protect rights and punish rights violations. This kids rights were violated in a heinous way. There is nothing a 4 year old can do that justifies a beating, or even a single strike for punative cause. None! No libertarian and no conservative will say otherwise. The proper label for someone that would is more akin to jackass, or some other meaningless intensive.

The video clearly shows the 4 y/o girl was punched 9 times with a closed fist in the side of the head, with all the force the mother could muster. That section of video was clear to me. I think the kid was at risk of having her neck broken from those blows. If I was taken to betting, I'd put my money on the child being dead from a broken neck. No news stories have popped up announcing the kid's OK, so I still think the kids dead. The blows were that severe and the girl was too small to take those hits w/o risk of death.

Someone made the comment above that the woman should be under the jail. I agree. The woman should be under the jail, not in it as the poster probably intended to mean.

216 posted on 09/21/2002 10:50:27 AM PDT by spunkets
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