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To: Jeff Head; Viva Le Dissention; sneakypete; Travis McGee; Squantos; Lurker; harpseal; joanie-f
Jeff,

You're absolutely correct in all your arguments and I do not disagree with anything you said. The objective of my post was entirely different.

Too many posters here at Free Republic are uninformed about the current state of law wrt RKBA. They think the 2nd Amendment protects this right. But the current state of the law is entirely different. The 2nd, as it is currently interpreted, only protects against federal infringement and not state. These gun owners cannot sit back and claim this is a protected right. They must face the fact that their state legislatures are the serious threat to their rights and do something about that.

This is something not confined to California. The NRA website lists a number of states whose constitution does not protect RKBA. These states are: California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York. Under current law, if you live in one of these states, you do not have a constitutionally protected RKBA.

I'm not so sure I disagree with this. It seems to me that there is a contradiction in conservative thought. It seem contradictory to believe in the 10th amendment and to simultaneously argue for extending the BoR protections to the states.

We protest the federal involvement in many areas, yet we want to claim a federal protection when it suits our case. In that regard we are not much different from the liberals. If you change the subject from RKBA to say, prayer in schools, it is difficult to distinguish between liberal and conservative arguements.

BTW, you're spending entirely too much time here at Free Republic. I think you should be spending every waking second in completing Vol III. I just finished Vol II last week to learn that I have to wait till spring for Vol III. Get back to work lest I start a petion to Jim Robinson to have you banned until Vol III is published. Just kidding Jeff, it's a great read and I can wait until Spring.
316 posted on 09/21/2002 5:36:16 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: DugwayDuke
I agree with you regarding the state of the law. The "law" should only recognize and enumerate unalienable rights. It's whole purpose is to protect those rights from infringement.

As I said earlier:

When what is legal has completely usurped what is constitutional ... then truth has become treason and we are left with doing what is constitutional, but what the government will brand as illegal.

Our founders were forced into just this quandry ... before there was a constitution ... but it was written on their hearts and they went forward with faith.

Like I say, I pray and work to avoid it ... I do not desire it, but will not give up those rights. There are fates worse than death ... there are things worth fighting and dying for. It is the American way IMHO. A small group of farmers in Klamath understood this last year and risked all to right just such a wrong.
Now, with respect to your quote ...
"Get back to work lest I start a petion to Jim Robinson to have you banned until Vol III is published."
LOL! I hear you loud and clear sir and will comply!

Thanks for those kind words and please consider a review on Amazon and Barnes & Noble reflecting the same if you are so inclined regarding Volume II. Did you like the way the nation responded in the abject circumstances of the story-line as regards the 2nd Amendment in Volume II? That's how it ought to go IMHO.

Best FRegards.

318 posted on 09/21/2002 6:58:30 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: DugwayDuke; Jeff Head; sneakypete; Travis McGee; Squantos; Lurker; harpseal
Thanks for the ping, DugwayDuke.

One may cite all manner of Supreme Court decisions regarding the Second Amendment (U.S. v. Cruikshank, Presser v. Illinois, Miller v. Texas, U.S. v. Miller, Lewis v. U.S. .... ) and point to any one, or all, of those decisions as proof of whatever one chooses to prove.

The ability, and the penchant -- by lower courts, the media, academia, or gun-control or pro-Second-Amendment organizations -- to (1) misinterpret, (2) quote out of context, or (3) incorrectly cite any or all of those five decisions has evolved into a modern American artform.

Call me simplistic if you like (you wouldn't be the first to do so :), but the Supreme Court decisions that have been handed down since 1876 simply set legal precedents. And they are precedents that are (supposedly) based on one foundation: the original intent of the Framers when they penned the Constitution.

So, to answer the question, 'Do the states have a right to regulate the ownership or use of arms?' one needs simply to look to the words, and the intent, of the Second -- and Ninth, Tenth, and Fourteenth -- Amendments.

To the Constitutional purist, every American lives under a very simply fabricated umbrella: a handful of 'natural' freedoms which are to be enjoyed by the citizens of this republic, and an even smaller handful of duties which are to be shouldered by the federal government. Anything other than those delineated freedoms, and delineated federal government responsibilities, is to be addressed by the people themselves, or the state governments under which they live.

Among that small handful of sacrosanct, 'natural' freedoms, which are not up for negotiation or regulation, and are not under the purview of government, is the right of the people to keep and bear arms (or, perhaps better put: the right to self defense). To say that the Constitution places states' right above the handful of enumerated 'natural' rights which are cited as untouchable amounts to believing that the Constitution is meaningless, and this republic is, in effect, a weak conglomeration of fifty sovereign, disparate entities (emphasis on the word weak).

The purpose of the Constitution's guarantees was to enumerate (not create!) a small (but eternally important) set of guaranteed rights that may not be infringed upon by any branch of government (federal, state, or otherwise). And in that way a Constitutional right differs from a right conferred by statute or by common law. It is sacrosanct.

Robert Dowlut (Deputy General; Counsel for the NRA) wrote in his essay (1989), 'Federal and State Constitutional Guarantees to Arms': While bright boundary lines cannot always be drawn, this [establishing the protected boundaries of a right] is a more principled approach to constitutional interpretation than merely paying no attention to plain words or history and applying elastic labels of 'valid exercise of the police power' or 'reasonable regulation' whenever a constitutional challenge is made, or even denying the existence of a right by interpreting it in such a fashion that it becomes an intangible abstraction.

The Constitution in general, and the Second Amendment in specific, are fast becoming just that ... intangible abstractions. Legal manipulators (legislators, attorneys, lobbyists) are using court decisions (and the myriad of interpretations they imply) as the basis upon which to argue for or against Constitutional violations. The Second Amendment itself, and the original intent of those who penned it, have somehow found themselves lost in the shuffle.

The key words in Dowlut's quote above are: 'paying no attention to plain words or history' .... and 'reasonable regulation'.

The words of the Second Amendment could not be more plain. The intent of the Founders in penning it could not be more plain. (If their intent is viewed as nebulous, all one needs do is read their writings as quoted in innumerable other sources, or personal letters).

And, where the Second Amendment is concerned, reasonable regulation is the ultimate example of an oxymoron. One (or the state or federal government under which one lives) does not regulate, reasonably or otherwise, a natural, God-given, (Constitutionally-guaranteed) right.

< /simplicity >

439 posted on 09/23/2002 10:14:02 AM PDT by joanie-f
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