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Do state trump Bill of Rights on firearms?
WorldNetDaily ^

Posted on 09/20/2002 6:31:53 AM PDT by The Unnamed Chick

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To: Roscoe
Inane-roscoe-mania.

I quote the consitution, the founders true words.
- You post out of context inanities.
381 posted on 09/21/2002 2:43:42 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
I propose, in a series of papers, to discuss the following interesting particulars:

THE UTILITY OF THE UNION TO YOUR POLITICAL PROSPERITY THE INSUFFICIENCY OF THE PRESENT CONFEDERATION TO PRESERVE THAT UNION THE NECESSITY OF A GOVERNMENT AT LEAST EQUALLY ENERGETIC WITH THE ONE PROPOSED, TO THE ATTAINMENT OF THIS OBJECT THE CONFORMITY OF THE PROPOSED CONSTITUTION TO THE TRUE PRINCIPLES OF REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT ITS ANALOGY TO YOUR OWN STATE CONSTITUTION and lastly, THE ADDITIONAL SECURITY WHICH ITS ADOPTION WILL AFFORD TO THE PRESERVATION OF THAT SPECIES OF GOVERNMENT, TO LIBERTY, AND TO PROPERTY.


382 posted on 09/21/2002 2:57:01 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
I've read it and the Anti-Federalist Papers. I reread different sections of both from time to time. How about a detailed, referenced American History w/o bias.
383 posted on 09/21/2002 2:58:40 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Roscoe
"DO you now admit that the federal government has overstepped its authority with its restrictions on firearms." FL

When have I ever expressed the contrary?
- 379 - roscoe-backpedaling, frantically.

Roscoe, ANYone here on FR can go through a week or so of your recent posts to find dozens of 'expressions to the contrary', where you champion fed/state/local governments who violate the constitution with prohibitive laws.

In fact for a year or two you have been on the authoritarian statist big government bandwagon. You admit it, inadvertantly, with nearly every post.

Give up your 'conservative' disguise, and your feeble attempts to backpedal. You embarrass yourself.
384 posted on 09/21/2002 3:02:41 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Roscoe
The charge is false.

Do you admit that the federal government has overstepped its authority in prohibiting certain substances?

DO you now admit that the federal government has overstepped its authority with its restrictions on firearms.

When have I ever expressed the contrary?

Perhaps I mistook you for someone else. If so, sorry, I was wrong.

385 posted on 09/21/2002 3:04:14 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: tpaine
Looks like Roscoe has just admitted that the war on drugs at the federal level is unconstitutional.
386 posted on 09/21/2002 3:06:45 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: tpaine
dozens of 'expressions to the contrary'

Find one.

387 posted on 09/21/2002 3:08:50 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: FormerLurker
Libertarians frequently draw a false equivalence between drugs and the right to keep and bear arms.

The 2nd Circuit had this to say:

The Supreme Court in Lopez further explained that it struck down the Gun-Free School Zones Act because:

Section 922(q) is a criminal statute that by its terms has nothing to do with "commerce" or any sort of economic enterprise, however broadly one might define those terms. Section 922(q) is not an essential part of a larger regulation of economic activity, in which the regulatory scheme could be undercut unless the intrastate activity were regulated. It cannot, therefore, be sustained under our cases upholding regulations of activities that arise out of or are connected with a commercial transaction, which viewed in the aggregate, substantially affects interstate commerce.

Lopez, 115 S. Ct. at 1630-31 (footnote omitted). The difference between this and the manufacture and distribution of controlled substances is striking. These activities are commercial by their very nature. Indeed, in upholding a different section of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. § 846), we recently noted that, in contrast to the statute invalidated in Lopez, "[t]he Controlled Substances Act concerns an obviously economic activity." Genao, 79 F.3d at 1337.

It is therefore not surprising that every court that has considered the question, both before and after the Supreme Court's decision in Lopez, has concluded that section 841(a)(1) represents a valid exercise of the commerce power. See, e.g., United States v. Edwards, ___ F.3d ___, ___, 1996 WL 621913, at *5 (D.C. Cir. Oct. 29, 1996); United States v. Kim, 94 F.3d 1247, 1249-50 (9th Cir. 1996); United States v. Bell, 90 F.3d 318, 321 (8th Cir. 1996); United States v. Lerebours, 87 F.3d 582, 584-85 (1st Cir. 1996); United States v. Wacker, 72 F.3d 1453, 1475 (10th Cir. 1995), cert. denied, 117 S. Ct. 136 (1996); United States v. Leshuk, 65 F.3d 1105, 1111-12 (4th Cir. 1995); United States v. Scales, 464 F.2d 371, 375 (6th Cir. 1972); Lopez, 459 F.2d at 953.

Proyect attempts to distinguish this body of authority by arguing that, while growing marijuana for distribution has a significant impact on interstate commerce, growing marijuana only for personal consumption does not. Despite the fact that he was convicted of growing more than 100 marijuana plants, making it very unlikely that he personally intended to consume all of his crop, Proyect contends that no one may be convicted under a statute that fails to distinguish between the cultivation of marijuana for distribution and the cultivation of marijuana for personal consumption. This contention is without merit.


388 posted on 09/21/2002 3:13:59 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Sorry, I am not at your command.

In any case, they are self-evident.
389 posted on 09/21/2002 3:17:34 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Jeff Head
How in God's name did this fool get to be Attorney General of ANYTHING?
The 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms is an ENUMERATED RIGHT....therefor it is NOT subject to the tamperings of any tinhorn state official - AG or not.
If this idiot's logic were extended, then California would also have the power to curtail free speech, the right of assembly, freedom of religion and conduct warrantless searches and seizures.

This moron needs to be whacked up'side the head with a club of common sense.

390 posted on 09/21/2002 3:18:24 PM PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: Roscoe
Ho hum, just more roscoe-mania supporting prohibitions.
391 posted on 09/21/2002 3:21:42 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
You've never been able to back up any of your false allegations.

Nothing has changed.
392 posted on 09/21/2002 3:22:12 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: TheGrimReaper
"The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress." -- US Supreme Court, U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875), Presser v. State of Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)
393 posted on 09/21/2002 3:23:51 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: spunkets
I've read it and the Anti-Federalist Papers.

If true, your lack of even a basic understanding is an enigma.

394 posted on 09/21/2002 3:27:10 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: TheGrimReaper; Roscoe
Get our resident expert here at FR {roscoe} to explain this issue.
-- Soon, you too will learn to love prohibitions on most anything, by any level of government.
Roscoes here to help.
395 posted on 09/21/2002 3:27:42 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Roscoe
When the very act of cultivating or distributing a substance is made illegal, then that substance has been prohibited. In fact, the Controlled Substances Act DOES prohibit simple POSSESSION of ANY amount. This is in fact unconsitutional.

Regardless of what the courts say, the intent of the Founders was not to provide a catchall phrase within the Constitution that a future Congress could use to prohibit whatever they damn well please, nor was it intended that the Commerce clause be applied to virtually anything and everything under the sun.

396 posted on 09/21/2002 3:27:52 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Viva Le Dissention
I followed a number of your comments, and I'd like to point out that Circuit Court decisions normally only apply in their circuit.

So, for instance, Quilici vs Morton Grove would only hold in the Seventh Circuit, in which it was adjudicated. Now another circuit might reference such a decision, or the Supreme Court itself, but until adjudicated in those courts, no presumption is made. Lockyer may be trying to set up a situation where the Ninth would have to rule, and he may be doing so now because he fears that the composition of the Ninth will change soon.

It should also be noted that Emerson, which concludes that there is an individual right, is only valid in the Fifth Circuit. But since it postdates the flawed, conclusionary logic of Quillici ("Shall not be infringed" only applies to Congress), and substitutes the obvious notion of a basic, incorporated right subject to restriction upon abrogation of duty as a citizen (i.e., for conviction of a crime), any Supreme Court decision would have to consider it, and I suspect would choose this interpretation in balance against Quillici.

397 posted on 09/21/2002 3:28:28 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: Roscoe
You have never even attempted to challenge the truth of my allegations.
You just keep posting more prohibitionist nonsense. Digging your hole deeper.
398 posted on 09/21/2002 3:32:27 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Roscoe
"The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress." -- US Supreme Court, U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875), Presser v. State of Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)

As such, the same applies to any other Amendment within the Bill of Rights. And accordingly, the Supreme Court erred when it declared abortion a Constitutional Right.

399 posted on 09/21/2002 3:36:14 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Roscoe
" lack of even a basic understanding"

Care to elaborate?

400 posted on 09/21/2002 3:37:04 PM PDT by spunkets
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