Troy's spitting ban called racially biased

Albany Times Union ^ | Sept. 17, 2002 | Tim O'Brien

[southcarolina]

TROY, N.Y. -- Spit happens. But here, it can get you arrested.

Since the City Council quietly passed a law in July that makes it illegal to spit on the sidewalk, five people have been cited for violating the ordinance.

Council members said they wanted the law as a tool to break up groups of young people who loiter, use abusive language and spit.

But a community civil rights leader said the violation, which carries a $50 fine, is being used by police to target minorities. Four of the people cited so far are African-Americans.

"You have officers looking for any excuse to arrest these young men and to put them in custody," said Jessica Ashley, a past president of the Troy NAACP. "It's ridiculous. What are you going to come up with next, an ordinance allowing police to arrest people who look at them the wrong way?"

She said the fact that the majority of people cited so far are black bolsters her claim.

"I believe there are racial overtones involved there, whether they want to own up to it or not," she said. "Blacks are a minority in the city; whites are a majority. How do you arrest more black people than white people for spitting?"

Troy officials defended the law, saying it is aimed at improving neighborhoods.

"With all our neighborhood meetings, they were talking about gangs of kids loitering, urinating, spitting, drinking and using foul and abusive language," Police Commissioner Mark Whitman said. "We took a look at what our existing laws were. It is just another tool."

The law is similar to an earlier effort by police to stop bike riders for not having a bell or light on their bicycles. While the stated aim was to target drug couriers, African-Americans were disproportionately stopped. Blacks make up 11.4 percent of the city's population of 49,170.

Whitman denied that the anti-spitting law is used to stop minorities. Of the five people cited, four were young black men between the ages of 16 and 21.

"It's targeting groups. It's targeting problem areas. It has nothing to do with race," he said. "It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with quality of life and addresses the concerns neighborhoods have raised. The same people Jessica Ashley represents are the same people making the complaints."

Council President Harry Tutunjian agreed.

Like Whitman, he noted the ordinance, modeled after one in New York City, was drafted after a meeting between Whitman, council member and former state trooper Robert Armet and representatives of District Attorney Kenneth R. Bruno.

"It's a public health issue. The three groups came together to try to improve the quality of life in our city," Tutunjian said. "The law is meant to help police officers clean the street of unruly gangs of people who block storefronts and sidewalks. This council has worked to improve the quality of life in our city, and police officers needed to be able to have the law on their side to clear the streets and sidewalks of those people who are detrimental to the image of Troy."

Tutunjian said he is aware of the NAACP's concerns, and he has a meeting scheduled with its leaders Wednesday.

Mayor Mark Pattison said he already has met with the NAACP, and he too believes the ordinance is not racially discriminatory.

"The goal of it and other quality-of-life ordinances is to raise the bar of the level of acceptable behavior in our community," the mayor said. "It has no racial intent or overtones to it."

The mayor said he was open to other suggestions for how to handle these problems.

Ashley said the law causes her to worry about her teenage son.

"It scares me he could get arrested for spitting on the sidewalk."

[southcarolina]

What's more ridiculous: NAACP claims that an anti-spitting law is racially biased, or that a daily newspaper felt their claim was newsworthy?

[NatureGirl]

"Blacks are a minority in the city; whites are a majority. How do you arrest more black people than white people for spitting?"

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Because the black kids SPIT more often than than the whites?

On a personal note, I hate it when people spit in the street. It makes me feel like throwing up. Perhaps I should throw up near them - not on them, that would be rude.

[BrooklynGOP]

This dude I knew when I was going to school at Albany, got shot outside a club in Troy.

[BlessingInDisguise]

America: The Police State

Coming to a town near you.

[southcarolina]

Imagine that, a correlation between incidents and arrests!

[BlessingInDisguise]

"I hate it when people spit in the street. It makes me feel like throwing up."

Wow, you must have an incredibly weak stomache.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Ashley said the law causes her to worry about her teenage son. "It scares me he could get arrested for spitting on the sidewalk."

Oh jeez...

[SouthernFreebird]

While the law is stupid IMO, it's also stupid for blacks to cry racism every time blacks break the law. The potential for whites to spit is there, if they choose not to while blacks choose to then how is that racially motivated? Geez this song gets old

[BlessingInDisguise]

Blacks crying racism at every possible opportunity doesn't bother me one tenth as much as idiotic, liberty bashing laws do.

[07055]

This "racism" argument will next be used to challenge laws against public urination and defecation.

It probably already has been used in San Francisco...

[NatureGirl]

Well, I don't know about where you live, but in my little corner of the world, there have always been by-laws against "expectorating" in public. I'm not 100 per cent sure, but I believe the original reason for the law was because people gobbing in the street spread disease.

Do you have problems with the laws against urination in public, as well? Or would it be okay if someone dropped trou in front of your little abode and took a great big crap? After all, they're only performing a natural function.

[hinckley buzzard]

Looks like Libertarians have another marquee issue. "Nowhere in the Constitution is the eeevil government granted the power to suppress Man's freedom to spit!"

[BlessingInDisguise]

Wouldn't bother me any. Why does it bother you "Nature" Girl? Thanks for bringing up "Public Safety" my favorite B.S. topic to bash. Believe it or not, if you leave your home, you may expose yourself to some type of danger. But that's life...

[BlessingInDisguise]

Fear the government that fears your spit!

[NatureGirl]

Wouldn't bother me any.

Sure. I believe you.

[Jack Wilson]

Farting and belching bans are sexist. They discriminate against men.

[cincinnati_Steve]

I walk around with a dip of Copenhagen in my lip almost 100% of the time, and I can assure you that I don't spit on the sidewalk...I take sidesteps as necessary and spit in the gutter. Spitting on the sidewalk is crude.

My mother and I were eating at a Krystal a while back, and a guy was propped up against the window, spitting his RedMan chaw all over the sidewalk in front of the place. I thought I had been inured of a queasy stomach long ago, but I had to go outside and tell the idiot to move along. Some folks have no class at all.

I could rant about the perceived bias against blacks the rest of the evening (after living in Cincy), but it would be a waste of time. Certain segments of society will always scream "Foul!" when you don't let them start at first base.

[Howlin]

LOL.......very good!

Here's a helpful hint: Want to make this stop? DON'T SPIT!!!!

[Dog Gone]

Here's a helpful hint: Want to make this stop? DON'T SPIT!!!!

The bad news is that we now know where Bill Clinton plans to be buried.

[Howlin]

Oh, geez, and I thought I couldn't possibly read anything more disgusting on this thread. Thanks for THAT visual.