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I am new too this forum and I did not wish my reply to be directed at RonF exclusively.

Now to answer RonF questions:

Safety-Wise doesn't just give rules. After each rule, it has a detailed discussion on the rule and gives example situations and how the rule applies to that situation. If you can't find the answer there then you call council for clarification. They have a more detailed version of Safety-Wise (I do not know the exact title) which is as thick as a phone book. The version that leaders get is about a 1/2 inch thick. If council can't answer you then they (or you) can contact National. Every couple years they modify Safet-Wise. (I've been a leader for 8 years and have 3 versions.)

>For male chaperones Safety-Wise (p. 69) states
>"It is not appropriate for males to sleep in
>the same space with girl members. They may
>participate only if separate sleeping quarters
>and bathrooms are available for their use."

You asked "what's 'the same space'?"

The dialogue after that section discusses that. I don't have Safety-Wise infront of me but from memory, never same tent or same cabin. If you are tent camping the males have a seperate campsite. If cabin camping the males have a seperate cabin. If using a large bunk house, if there is not a seperate room for the males to use then the tent camp outside. If sleeping over at a museum, the males must either have a seperate room or a distinctly seperate area. (Now that one seems to be very subjective but what we had always done is all the leaders of the troops that are participating decide what is an appropriate seperation.)

As for bathrooms, if there is only one available, and even if there is a schedule for use, if the males are using it one must stay outside. If the males are initially going in they must get a female adult to check if the coast is clear.

>A few years ago, I was doing a self defense
>seminar for a group of boy scouts on a
>camping trip in Pennsylvania. After, I was
>walking around the camp and came upon a
>group of Boy Scout leaders, assistant leaders,
>den leaders, and chaperones smoking pot and
>having a few beers. If my son or daughter
>had been at this camp they would have been
>leaving with me.

First I went back and notified the leaders that were incharge and they told me they would handle it and ask them to leave. I told them that I would be notifying their council and they said they would be too. After I left, I found a pay phone (this was before I got a cell phone) and called the council that was where the scouts were from and left a message on their answering machine.
When I got home I notified the council incharge of that camp and left them a message on their answering machine. Neither of these council offices were open until Monday when both called me. What I did not know at the time is that each council has an emergency contact number that I should have called. I don't know why I didn't call the police.

And you are right, I did not know for sure that they were all straight since they were all too busy drinking beer and smoking pot to be having their preferred type of sex so that I could identify their sexual orientation. (ha ha)

And, when I suggested that you were not a BSA volunteer, I did not mean you inparticular, RonF, I meant the larger you. It has been my experience that in many circumstances that the people with the loudest complaint are the ones that are least involved.

I am glad to hear that you accept you sons leader at face value. I do believe that a gay person as well as a straight person should be allowed to be leaders but if either are exposing our youth to sex or sexuality through words, pictures or actions then they should not be allowed to be leaders. Now before someone points this out, yes I think that it is okay that a male leader can refer to his "wife" because that it is her legal relationship to him, it would not be the same as a male leader talking about his "husband" (yes I know that gay marriage is leagalized in a few states).

I think any good leader/teacher/volunteer stays aware of the confort level of the group that they are incharge of and their parents. For example, many years ago, my girl scouts wanted to go on a certain camping trip that our council was offering. We had 10 girls so we needed at least two adults (an adult with first-aid/CPR certification, an adult with GS leader training, and an adult with GS camping certification - yeas these can be the same adult). Most of the mom's had the leader training and many had the first-aid/CPR but I was the only one with camp training. Here is the problem, I had at the time of the trip my baby would only be 3 months old and still breast feeding. I didn't breast feed at the meetings (even though it is leagal to breast feed anywhere in the state of NJ). I had the baby with me but if she need to be fed I let the assistant leader take over and I excused myself to another room.

The girls really wanted to go on this specific camping trip. I called a parent meeting and explained we could not go on the trip because I would have to bring my infant who I was breast feeding and the I didn't want to have to leave everytime the baby needed to be fed even though when I breast feed in public that I am very descrete. Every parent said that it would be okay with them if I breast fed infront of their daughters and thanked me for talking to them about it first so they would have a chance to talk to their daughters beforehand. We ended up going on the trip but I made sure that the permission slip that each parent signed for the trip reflected the fact that I would be bringing my baby and that I would be breast feeding. Most of the girls didn't even notice, a few asked why I had a blanket over the baby's head, the only lasting effect that it had was that a few of the mothers said that when their daughters played with their baby dolls, they no longer fed them the pretent baby bottle, they put the dolls head against them and put a blanket over its head.