Judged By Ideological Standards of Their Time, Were The Founding Fathers Liberals or Conservatives?

September, 17, 2002 | self

[jstone78]

I do know that classical liberalism differs significantly from the "liberalism" we associate with Ted Kennedy.

But if you listen to the anti-war views being expressed by Paleo-Conservatives and Libertarians, who are the closest thing we have to classic liberals in this day and age, they do have some of the same objections to globalization that we often hear from the left.

[jstone78]

For those interested in viewing the American Revolution from the Tory perspective, you can check out this interesting article: http://www.geocities.com/kiltsfamily/loyalistspersecution.htm

It is a perspective I was never taught in school.

[SJackson]

Liberals. Times change, don't get too hung up on names.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

What about the loyalists (or Tories) who remained loyal to their King and country in 1776? Were they not the true "conservatives" of the time, by any definition of the term?

Tories were reactionists. Our founding fathers were visionaries. As for looting and killing, if I'm not mistaken, the Tories had blood and plunder on their hands too. It was an ugly time.

[Argus]

Our founders were conservatives in the sense that they had a profound mistrust of utopian schemes and radical innovations and carefully constructed our constitutional system to restrain man's natural tendency to robbery and oppression.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Our founding fathers wanted limited government, quite obviously. They were prettymuch libertarians, very conservative and freedom oriented.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

By today's standards, liberals are the reactionists. They want us to revert back to the days of the past, and to cling to ideas that have been proven to not work. They fear monger against progress. They are anti-progressive reactionists that only pretend to favor progress.

[AntiGuv]

Definitely libertarian, IMHO, which would've been the 'liberals' of their time as opposed to the Torie monarchists who were conservatives. Today's liberalism is more accurately conceived of as socialism which didn't really appear as a modern force until well after Marx in the latter half of the 1800s (during the late Industrial Revolution).

[angkor]

Difficult question.

My first American forebears are buried in the Boston Park Street Church cemetary, circa 1660. They were chased out of France - to Boston - by the Catholics.

I think they were simply defending their lives, right up until 1786.

[aardvark1]

Paine was heavily influenced by French thought and was certainly more influential in France than the US, although he did have some influence here. The War of Independence is seen as conservative because what the colonists initially wanted were their rights as English citizens. This is one reason why so many of the concepts in our constitution came from English law. English common law was (in some sense still is except in Louisianna) the basis for our legal system.

[AzJP]

liber = free

al = pertaining to

liberal = pertaining to freedom

Hillary ain't.

The bastards stole the word but I use it as intended.

Yes, some of the folks back in the 1770's really wanted a King. Not George, but they were convinced they had to have a monarch. They were the conservatives.

The liberals (Paine included: "kill the monarchy, not the Monarch!") horrified the rest of the world be declaring that the United States did not want a Monarch!

Thanks to my teacher: AJG.

[x]

Good question. It was the founders' belief that they stood for the rights of Englishmen that had been established by the Magna Charta and the Glorious Revolution of 1689. They felt the British crown was trying to deprive them of their traditional rights. In that sense our Revolution began as a conservative movement.

But many a conservative colonist stood by the crown. The situation was complicated by the radical Puritan tradition of the New England colonists. What mattered was whether colonists in other states viewed the revolution in light of the Magna Charta and the Whiggish 1689 Revolution, or in light of the English Civil War and the periodic revolts and disturbances in the colonies themselves. Some viewed the Revolution as a defense of essential British liberties. Others saw it as another rabblerousing rebellion, and were turned off by the leading role of the sons of the Puritans, whose English cousins had taken Charles I's head in the 1640s. Paine, was truly a radical, who had all the animus against class societies of an English underdog.

[El Gato]

They were neither. They were Whigs and more importantly classical (little "r") republicans too.

[Robert_Paulson2]

libertarians or independents.

[My2Cents]

Liberals. Times change, don't get too hung up on names.

Good point. And correct.

The conservative of today would have been an 18th Century liberal. Also, what our Founders proclaimed (the "inalienable rights of man" and declaring any government which violated those rights as illegitimate), and what they did (the establishment of a constitutional republic) were things that had never been done before. It was exceedingly radical by 18th Century political standards. Those today who strive to protect and promote the heritage of the Founders and their principles are conservatives -- conserving the principles of liberty, self-government, and the responsibility of legitimate governments to protect that liberty and form of government.

BTW, I am a direct descendent of Samuel Tilley, a prominent New York Tory, who led other Tories to Canada and who is considered a "Founding Father" of New Brunswick. However, while he is my great-great-great-great-grandfather (I may have left off a "great"), I am sympathetic to the American patriots.

[My2Cents]

Good comments. I guess the real answer is that the American Revolution was made up of a mish-mash of people -- classical British republicans, and unruly rabble-rousers, to mention two.

[Liberal Classic]

Trick question. They were all different, just as we all are. Jefferson was a liberal, certianly more liberal than Adams. Neither were quite as radical as Henry, etc, etc.

[VRW Conspirator]

Founding Fathers:

Liberal in the sense that they wanted a "more to perfect union" and bold enough to fight and die for the idea. They were conservative in that they had the reason to enact the separation of powers based on a constitutional republic and rule of law.

[Station 51]

The Founders fought and died for a progressive cause making them liberals in their day however, placed in today's society they would be ultraconservative. Social progress continues as time passed but at some point conservatives of the day must apply the breaks to social change before our nation becomes even more socialist.

[harrowup]

The founders were simply rebels. Life was not onerous under the King...but it was placed on people who were exiles from religious persecution and servitude...so it was ordained that they would kick loose. The shock in England was that the colonists were in revolt, whereas England's experience elsewhere at the time and in India and Africa was the need for the Anglos to hang together against the locals...who outnumbered the British Colonists by millions...as opposed to the States where we managed to kill off, infect or bribe into oblivion...when the "Savage" threat was gone...the founders wanted it all.

Definitely Conservative...

Probably so conservative, the guy from Princeton was selling memberships for the Country Club two days after the little dust up in Trenton.