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To: Yehuda
You can stick your attitude where the sun doesn't shine, you infantile rude POC

Did I insult you? Call you names? I asked you a question about an apparent case of cognitive dissonance relating to customs of the Jews as is currently practiced. It's been my experience that people become brutish and truculent over such questions when they feel must believe but cannot reconcile that belief with reality.

Because I was reading on some of your LT material and because it did make a difference to the question, and because judging by the tone of your response, my hesitancy was justified.

What in the world does issues of identification of the lost tribes of Israel have to do with a questions of Rabbinical authority as opposed to that commanded by God? Now, if you meditated on whether to lay some bullhockey on me about the authority of men to change at their will the mandates of God, you were well justified in your hesitancy.

I asked you why you didn't answer the question. Is that a "tone"? Well, mark my "tone" now.

I have no desire to be de dragged into some disputation with someone who, based on their supercilious tone and poor taste in criticism is probably going to go on and on about the Oral law. (And how ironic that the those who contest the Oral law would find themselves in agreement on this subject with Reform Jews, those most likely to espouse left wing political causes....)

But you did respond, so you volunteer to be "dragged". The question is, if Leviticus is composed of commandments of God, how does Rabbinical authority cahnge it? Lest we forget the original question to you was, "Was not the Old Testament practices and prohibitions in Leviticus written by man according to Hebrew custom? And if they were ordained by God by being therein, how do Rabbinic authorities change them?"

And lest we forget further that it was in response to your response to my post to another poster supporting the spirit of your comments made to him.

Can you resolve the apparent conflict of God's mandates and man's laws and customs implied by the subject of the question? You give people to believe that the Jewish people follow direct commandments of God. Rabbis are not God; they have neither the wisdom nor the forsight beyond the normal blinders installed by the lusts, prejudices and fears of any other men. Regardless of how much you respect them.

At the risk of prodding you on, if it's the JEWISH covenant (and please don't waste my time about "jewish" vs. Hebrews etc) then I have no problem, as long as they can either prove matrilineal descent or want to convert back through Normative Traditional Judaism. Otherwise, you can have them for Christ, or Allah, or Eric the Red or whoever.

Jewish covenant? God made His covenant with the tribe of Judah only, even before there were any Israelite tribes at all? This I should waste your time explaining? Why do you not already know it? It's not even historical; it's common sense.

Matrilineal descent? Is that custom a mandate from God or men?

I made a mistake in not originally noting that as part of my observance, even when I cut and paste as I am doing here, it is part of my tradition to not spell out the available name of G-d, as some Rabbis who I respect have taught that even in cyber space (especially with the possibility that someone could print out the text) Orthodox Jews go to great lengths not to desecrate G-d's name. I would have thought with your great erudition about Judaism that you were aware of the issue, but again, I should have noted the that the changes were mine; it might have been misleading if someone thought you were following Orthodox tradition:

Is not spelling out God's name His commandment, or another of man's? But OK, I'll play along. If you can't handle the prospect of a Rabbi telling you that you will go to Hell for spelling out God's name, howabout you replace the "o" with a "-" in my posts reproduced back to me and I'll replace the "-" with an "o" in the reproductions of your posts back to you.

I don't ask for an appology; I ask for a deal. I do ask that you try to maintain oversight of your fears and prejudices for the purpose of having a civil conversation, if you want to post comments to me.

If you don't want to discuss a topic, don't bring it up, or, if brought up by another, don't respond. By initiating comments or responding to those made by others, you void your position of reluctance, like when going to war to kill others somone voids their right to keep their own life safe from assault.

217 posted on 09/18/2002 11:32:54 AM PDT by William Terrell
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To: William Terrell
The question is, if Leviticus is composed of commandments of God, how does Rabbinical authority cahnge it?

The Torah gives authority of interpretation.

If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within thy gates; then shalt thou arise, and get thee up unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose.
And thou shall come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days; and thou shalt inquire; and they shall declare unto thee the sentence of judgment.
And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare unto thee from that place which the LORD shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee.
According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left. (Deuteronomy 17:8-11)

Matrilineal descent? Is that custom a mandate from God or men?

Isaac was Abraham's heir; Ishmael was not. You should be able to figure it out from there. There are other scriptural examples too, but this should suffice.

226 posted on 09/18/2002 12:57:44 PM PDT by malakhi
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