Suspects Said to Be Awaiting Order to Attack in U.S.

The New York Times ^ | 09/15/2002 | PHILIP SHENON

[Paleo Conservative]

I'd hate to be a Muslim in America right now.

I bet most of them are better off in this country than they were in their home countries.

[exit82]

Phil, again, thanks for another reply, # 65. I'm having difficulty with the fifth paragraph ( begins with " Apologists"). The author seems to be splitting hairs with his distinction between followers of Islam and Islamists(although his development of the ways of Islamists is very in depth).

Still seems to me that being an Islamist is a natural outgrowth or progression of following Islam. In a place with a more dominant culture, the follower of Islam stays below the radar screen. When the "dominant" culture doesn't assert itself, the Islamist can then flourish and bring his view of Muslim dominance with its violent trappings along for the ride, taking advantage of the chance to usurp political power, and hence, another victory for Allah.

I thank you for posting some very useful information, though: I learned a few things.

[RightWhale]

Larry Thompson, deputy attorney general:

"I want to thank the Muslim community of Buffalo for their extraordinary cooperation," he said

Let's hear about more cooperation, but it shouldn't be extraordinary, it should be completely normal for Americans to rat out enemy cells in this time of war.

[Paleo Conservative]

When the "dominant" culture doesn't assert itself, the Islamist can then flourish and bring his view of Muslim dominance with its violent trappings along for the ride

Notice how few of the countries with Musllim majorities are democracies.

[exit82]

Very true. Democracy seems to be anathema to Islam by its very nature. And worthy of note, that if Islam is indeed a religion of peace, why is there no tolerance for other religions in most of the Muslim countries? Yet, the West has no problem accommodating Islam.

[exit82]

Phil,correction in my post # 82 to you--I meant to say post # 74, not post #65.

[PhilDragoo]

Daniel Pipes offers a newsletter which is always perceptive, and has a book out on Islam in America.

The seventh paragraph you note is:

Apologists would tell us that Islamism is a distortion of Islam, or even that it has nothing to do with Islam, but that is not true; it emerges out of the religion, while taking features of it to a conclusion so extreme, so radical, and so megalomaniacal as to constitute something new. It adapts an age-old faith to the political requirements of our day, sharing some key premises of the earlier totalitarianisms, fascism and Marxism-Leninism. It is an Islamic-flavored version of radical utopianism. Individual Islamists may appear law-abiding and reasonable, but they are part of a totalitarian movement, and as such, all must be considered potential killers.

Of which we might distil the sentence:

It adapts an age-old faith to the political requirements of our day, sharing some key premises of the earlier totalitarianisms, fascism and Marxism-Leninism.

Hence the call on the part of Rice for Arafat to vanish and leave a democratic Palestinian Authority in three years is revolutionary.

Islamism in Iran has produced such discontent that only the most repressive measures are holding the society together.

Pipes is not the only one suggesting that a regime change is in store for Iran--as much from within, as from without.

Iran in Crisis
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
July 23, 2002

Militant Islam is on the ascendant almost everywhere around the globe - except in the nation that has experienced it longest and knows it best. In Iran, it is on the defensive and perhaps in retreat.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

We need a law revoking the citizenship of naturalized citizens convicted of certain crimes. One of them is treason.

Upon connviction of treason, the penalty should be revocation of citizenship -- followed by death by hanging by the entrails of a pig.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

The tightknit Muslim communites KNOW who the "terrorists" are. If they don't like the treatment they get, they can 1) act horrified at 9-11, and 2) COUGH THEM UP.

This works.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

My concern is that UBL had BILLIONS of dollars at his diposal. The fight will take decades to win, but we will.

Yes. We are currently into WWIV.

[Mixer]

I guess this makes the deportation issue a little harder to deal with.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Maybe, just maybe, it'll convince a few that their religion is crap, and just not worth the trouble.

Or at least the radical interpretation of their religion is bogus and fraught with danger for them. Time for a reformation, IMO.

[Samwise]

Federal officials in Washington said they were tipped to the existence of the cell by two other members of the group, who were cooperating with the authorities.

This is the most promising info I have heard all year.

[exit82]

"Militant Islam is on the ascendant almost everywhere around the globe - except in the nation that has experienced it longest and knows it best. In Iran, it is on the defensive and perhaps in retreat."

That is an excellent observation. Turkey has been the longest exception to the Moslem rule, also.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

If they fail to reform they will all die.

[ladyinred]

We are going to war because we were attacked first. The war was brought to us, not the other way around. To defend the citizens of this nation is the primary function of our constitutional republic government.
Your quote on your profile page is very interesting.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

I guess you didn't get the memo.

What the hell are you talking about? If there has been ONE conspicuous fact since 9-11 it has been the abject SILENCE of the "American Muslim" community vis-a-vis terrorism. Give us a break.

[SierraWasp]

"Expect the ACLU or some other group of liberals to soon emerge to defend these terrorists."

You couldn't possibly be anymore correct!!!

No one will ever convince me otherwise, that the reason the 9-11-01 19 ME terrorists were able to advance unquestioned through the gates at Logan AP and elsewhere to attack the United States... Was simply because all security personnel were deathly afraid of being sued for "profiling!"

There is no way we can stop it with this relentless fear of allegation by ruthless Muslim allegators and their ACLU LAWYERS!!!

We will certainly lose the "seperation of church & State" when the Murdering Muslers take this nation away from us! That's not racist... It's just a fact of life!

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Regarding the JQ Adams quote on your profile:

“Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been unfurled, there will [America’s] heart, her benedictions, and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy..."

I am sure that John Adams would have allowed an exemption to his statement for "monsters" abroad who seek to destroy us by a first strike. Wouldn't you agree?

[sarasmom]

"I just stated the facts as they have been presented maam."

Do give it a rest. I admit I was born in the dark(8:00 PM), but it was not last night!

I do not walk around harboring hatred of Baptists, Catholics, Hindus, Lutherans, Pagans, Mormans,Wiccans, Buddists,Methodists,Jews,Atheists,Presbyterians,Pentacostals,Moonies, etc ad nausium.

I, and all rational humans, look at Islam as "other".Islam is not a true religion, it is an ugly,barbaric lingering vestige of a failed form of tribal power/population controll.

Islam is not peace, and I will not be veiled, nor have my, and my childs, genital organs mutillated to satiate an ignorant, barbaric system of power hungry insane deviants.

Facts debate sent right back at you.