BARNEY FIFE!
Posted on 09/14/2002 2:55:53 PM PDT by RobFromGa
Wrong.
The only governmental body that has the power to "provide for the common defense" is the Congress. While I'm sure you'd like to live in a dictatorship, as evidenced by your inane comments, the military does not work for the President. The Military receives its authority from the Congress and is commanded from time to time by the President.
As I said, Tough Titties. Rumsfeld works for Bush, and we will send him over to talk to you again if you like. Otherwise, suck eggs.
You and Daschle think alike... did you write this list of questions regarding the upcoming war with Iraq for Daschle?
1) Will it help elect democrats in November? 2) Can democrats get the majority of the credit if successful? 3) Can democrats blame republicans if unsuccessful? 4) If it leads to the loss of American lives, can the dead still vote for democrats in November?
Sincerely,
DemiDog for Tom Daschle
credit for the interception of this list goes to Oldeconomybuyer
George Bush. A hick, a country boy, dumb as an ox.
Yeah, like the character SHERIFF TAYLOR played by ANDY GRIFFITH. Slow talking, straight-forward, Honest.
Slow and easy for city-slickers to fool. At least they thought so. Until they ended up in jail.
Sheriff Taylor, didn't get mad and yell, didn't go around spouting everything to the town. If you made him mad or broke the law, you never knew what happened until it hit you.
I think of Clinton, I think of Daschle, I think of Barney Fife. I think of most politicians, I see people who are clever (like a thief is clever) and whose EGO must be fed.
I think of George Bush, I think of Sheriff Taylor. Remember, as anyone experienced with handling people will tell you, it's the quiet ones they have to be concerned with.
Because the quiet ones prepare, and then execute. They don't give away their next move. And they have the power of BELIEVING what they are doing is morally and legally RIGHT. Amazing the strength that belief gives you.
George Bush: "You are either with us, or you are against us".
I guess those congresscritters have shown which side they are on by their actions. They are now getting treated corresponding to their own actions.
The last part of that sentence. What exactly is the 'time to time' you are talking about?
BARNEY FIFE!
The crass politicization of the conflict looming (politicization by the lil' tommy crew[I couldn't believe the game on This Week by Clintoon's setup artist and his ABC bosses against Condi Rice], done in such a stealth mode that the average voting dimocrat can't see the truth of it) should be thrown right back in the dim's faces by forthrightly defining the necessary military actions against Insane and his ilk as the ultimate issue for political stand ... we the people have every right to hear the political spin the elected representatives want to issue and VOTE ACCORDINGLY!
The dimocrats have chosen to politicize the war issue, now their (anti-American) weaksecurity posture should be exposed for the danger it poses! For the dimocrats to sneakily politicize the war effort as a means to defer action until the dims can take credit is treasonous, don'tcha think?
America needs honest representatives, now more than in the last fifty years. Dimocrats aren't it, as hatellary and lil'Tommy have proven with their spin-city rhetorical posturing and outright lying. It just proves the past modus operendi of the dims for elections ... divide and conquer; produce blind dissention and as much chaos as possible and manipulate the weak-minded voting masses.
My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.
Bush vs. Congress: The War Powers Resolution
By Henry Mark Holzer
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 12, 2002
On September 4, 2002, amidst a national guessing game over President Bush's intentions regarding Iraq and the role of Congress in his plans, the president sent a carefully worded letter to Speaker of the House of Representatives, Dennis Hastert. After establishing that America and the civilized world are at a crossroads regarding Iraq, Mr. Bush wrote (the emphasis is mine):
I am in the process of deciding how to proceed. This is an important decision that must be made with great thought and care. Therefore, I welcome and encourage discussion and debate. The Congress will hold hearings on Iraq this month, and I have asked members of my Administration to participate fully.
Doing nothing in the face of a grave threat to the world is not an option. At an appropriate time and after consultations with the leadership, I will seek congressional support for U.S. action to do whatever is necessary to deal with the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's regime. The Congress can play an important role in building a national consensus for action.
This letter was prompted by a federal law that has been largely ignored in the current debate over the roles of President Bush and Congress in the forthcoming attack on Iraq. The statute is the one law that slightly ties the Commander-in-Chief's hands: the War Powers Resolution (WPR) [Title 50, United States Code, Sections 1541-1548].
Spawned by what many believed was an arrogation of war-making power by Presidents Kennedy and Johnson (and to a lesser extent by President Nixon), Congress in late 1973, more than a year after American troops were pulled out of Vietnam, passed the WPR over Nixon's veto.
Of the WPR's eight sections — characterized by some as "more politics than law" — only two sections are significant..
The first (Section 1541 — "Purpose and policy") nakedly reveals, in three subsections, the power grab Congress intended by means of the WPR:
(a) Congressional declaration
It is the purpose of this [statute] to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgment of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.
Translation: Congress — not the judicial branch, not the Supreme Court of the United States or any lower federal court — anointed itself interpreter of the Constitution. As such, Congress somehow divined that the Framers intended the President, as Commander-in-Chief, and the Legislature were to be partners in "the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities...and to the continued use of such forces...." Not surprisingly, Congress' WPR did not adduce a shred of historical evidence to support its fanciful interpretation of the Framer's intent.
(b) Congressional legislative power under necessary and proper clause
Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Translation: Since Congress could implement through legislation the powers of all three branches, it could also limit the Article II power expressly granted to the Commander-in-Chief. We shall see in a moment what Congress purported to do pursuant to its "necessary and proper" power, and what became of that attempt.
(c) Presidential executive power as Commander-in-Chief; limitation
The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
Translation: Without even a fig leaf of historical or precedential cover, and despite the fact that Article II contains neither express nor implied limitations on the President's power as Commander-in-Chief, Congress purported to define the Constitutional powers of the President. To the WPR-writing Congress, the fundamental Constitutional principle of separation of powers simply did not exist.
Thus, in this first section of the WPR one can readily see Congress' avowed "purpose and policy": to arrogate unto itself the power of Constitutional interpretation, to create a war-making partnership with the Commander-in-Chief, to restrict his Article II power as Commander-in-Chief — and, in the process, to significantly tilt the Constitution's textual separation of powers in favor of the Legislature.
With its "purpose and policy" as the predicate, Congress then required in Section 1542 that the President "in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces" into situations described in the previous section. Section 1543 required that the President regularly report to Congress "(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed forces; (B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and (C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement." Plus anything else Congress wanted to know.
If that were as far as Congress went, one could make a case that the Legislature remained within its proper role, especially since it would be the funding source for military activity. But in the next section — "1544, Congressional action, (b) Termination of use of United States Armed Forces; exceptions; extension period" — Congress crossed the line:
Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted . . . the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces . . . unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States.
(d) Concurrent resolution for removal by President of United States Armed Forces
Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section, at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.
No wonder President Nixon, unsuccessfully, vetoed the War Powers Resolution.
Understand this. Section 1544, subsection (b) limits the commitment of troops to a short, finite period. Whether this enactment pursuant to the Article I power of Congress to legislate — even if it be a proper subject for judicial review — trumps the Article II power of the President as Commander-in-Chief, no one knows because the Supreme Court has never ruled on the question.
We do, however, know the answer to whether Congress can order the President to remove troops in the field — and that answer is a resounding "no."
In a case entitled Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Chadha, the Supreme Court held that under separation of powers doctrine — a lynchpin of American constitutionalism — it is unconstitutional for Congress to invalidate, by means of what amounts to a "legislative veto," an act of the Executive Branch.
So, since under the War Powers Resolution, President Bush must "consult" with Congress before invading Iraq, that's the process his Hastert letter has begun.
Note, however, that only "[a]t an appropriate time" and after "consultations with the leadership," will the President ask Congress, not for a declaration of war, but rather only for its "support" — because "Congress can play an important role in building a national consensus for action."
Both the tone of the Hastert letter and its substance reveal that the President is playing by the book, adhering to the consultative requirement of the WPA — confident in the knowledge that Congress cannot force him to withdraw troops once committed. In light of Congress' powerlessness in this regard, it can be said that the short time frame during which the President is allowed to commit troops (Section 1544(b)), is meaningless — if not legally, then practically.
Once American troops are in the field, Congress' only recourse is to defund their support.
Although Congress did just that in 1973 — when it attached a provision to the veto-proof Social Security Act that prohibited "use of any past or present appropriations for financing U.S. combat activities in or over or from off the shores of North Vietnam, South Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia," we then had no ground troops remaining in that theater. It will be a far different story if Congress tries to pull the plug on material support for Americans fighting in Iraq. That would — and should — be political suicide. Something for which our elected Congress is not noted.
When Congress has declared war or there is a threat of attack in which case the President has some leeway to use the military to repel an attack. Read the constitution much?
In other words, you like it when the President ignores the constitution. This site is alleged to be for the restoration of the constitution. What the hell are you doing here?
[Demidog] In other words, you like it when the President ignores the constitution. This site is alleged to be for the restoration of the constitution. What the hell are you doing here?
Since you are so well versed in the constitution, you well know that the founders designed that (the ultimate control of the military) as a fire wall, not a day-to-day management technique. If really needed, the Congress can cut off the money to the military. They would then suffer the consequences, if any were deemed necessary by the voters.
The mouthings coming from Daschle (currently) are clearly for short term political advantage, and most voters see it for what it is.
Do you really think we have more than a handful in congress that have the b@lls required to cut off the money, even if it were needed? I'll bet this current crop would follow the polls and vote to save themselves rather than the vision of the founders. So you can give your "congress should run the military" wacko-idea a rest.
Thanks for posting this (The War Powers Resolution) Post #169. I should have read it before my xx : 17 post #172. I'm actually shocked at the power grab attempted by the congress. I'm also glad to see that the bottom line is still the same, although congress has more ammunition to position themselves for short term politial advantage.
Wouldn't you like to see the results of a poll asking would you rather trust President Bush to handle this, or do you trust the likes of those democrats (and some R's) that defended Clinton? [Do you even want them messing around (helping)?]
I guess those congresscritters have shown which side they are on by their actions. They are now getting treated corresponding to their own actions.
Correct. Dashcle and his ilk are obstructing. Liberman and his [(D) presidental hopeful ilk ], who need the swing voters, are supporting Bush. They are all mostly whores and most voters know that too.
No, but so what? Since when has doing the right thing been dependent upon what's popular?
No, but so what? Since when has doing the right thing been dependent upon what's popular?
Always in our congress, so give your "congress should run the military" wacko-idea a rest.
You'll get what the commander in chief thinks is appropriate, and can be trusted with. Whuss, Tim Daschle, just decided he'd rather switch that fight (or even ask any more questions). If you don't like it you can always cut off the funds. So continue to suck eggs as I said!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.