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HERE THEY GO - Kirk: Race, class issues help shape views on war
Houston Chronicle ^ | September 14, 2002 | AP

Posted on 09/14/2002 2:13:46 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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Bush scolds Dems wary over Iraq plan*** While wrapping up meetings at the United Nations, Bush offered a withering assessment of Democratic lawmakers hesitant to approve a resolution on Iraq until after the United Nations acts.

"I can't imagine an elected member of the United States Senate or House of Representatives saying, `I think I'm going to wait for the United Nations to make a decision,' " Bush said. "It seems like to me that if you're representing the United States, you ought to be making a decision on what's best for the United States."

The president's remarks pushed the Iraq issue directly in the path of the crucial midterm elections, which will decide which party controls Congress and the national agenda.***

1 posted on 09/14/2002 2:13:47 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Someone needs to tell this Rat puke that he's FUBAR on who does the fighting. He should go to check the ethnicity of ANY INFANTRY UNIT OR SF UNIT!!! This jackass thinks that the minorities who tend to be in all of the REMF units are going over there to "fight and die". Pleeeeezzzze. The only action these folks see is the Air Force flying over, or have to guard the ammo for the grunts back in the rear prior to delivery. If I could, I'd show him the butt end of a rifle at a velocity he wouldn't be able to stop. It would be one thing for him to pull this class warfare BS, but he's the one who is out of line here - BIG TIME.
2 posted on 09/14/2002 2:27:45 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I believe that Kirk is making some erroneous assumptions about the makeup of the military. This isn't the Vietnam draftee military.

I recall a Wall Street Journal article from the late 90's that noted that the combat arms had become dominated by white males.

First, minorities (but most especially blacks) entering the military were more likely to look upon it as a career so they were entering support branches because those tasks often had civilian equivalents (i.e. truck maintenance in the Army is going to give you a career in civilian life), unlike say infantry (though if Bill Gates decides to become a supervillain, that could change).

Second, many white guys looked upon the military as an adventure for a few years so they joined the various more elite combat arms and special ops. It was something to do while young and crazy.

So far this has been a war of elite ground units and pilots (a group that requires a college degree). These are people with very different backgrounds than the Vietnam era draftees.

3 posted on 09/14/2002 2:30:19 AM PDT by LenS
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To: 11B3; LenS
Thank you for setting this race/class baiter straight. His numbers must be way down, for him to pull this.
4 posted on 09/14/2002 2:35:40 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: LenS
That 'blank' don't fly. This is a VOLUNTEER army, and I think Texas understands that. This is a Texas race, right? I have trouble believing that a Texas candidate would be talking like this Kirk clown.

What are we paying our soldiers for? Good grief. This loser might be a senator of the United States of America? From TEXAS???!!!

Here's a response: "I think that Black American soldiers would be insulted by what Mr. Kirk is saying. They don't want to be left at home when the shooting starts, I can tell you that. ALL soldiers in our military get it. They understand the importance of regime change in Iraq. Hiding behind race in this VOLUNTEER army is as cowardly as hiding behind women and children."

Take that, Mr. Kirk, the same bozo who things that parental consent for an underage girl to have an abortion is extreme.

5 posted on 09/14/2002 2:45:06 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I suspect that it's also that he's going on faulty information. The actual make-up of the volunteer military isn't really known to most people.

Though, there is one thing in favor of his argument. In the Gulf War, the combat arm guys took so few casualties that the casualties among the support types proportionately higher than one would expect. The Scud attack, crashes and other accidents, mine injuries, etc. probably caused more kills than the enemy in direct combat.

However, I doubt Kirk is making his argument based on such knowledge. More likely, he's going off the common mythology of Vietnam -- that poor dumb farm and ghetto kids did all the dying. But even that is wrong. I recall reading of a study in the past two years that pointed out that blacks didn't die in combat at a higher rate than their percentage of the military.

6 posted on 09/14/2002 2:47:14 AM PDT by LenS
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To: LenS
I believe it's been documented that the "black grunt only" stereotype was wildly exaggerated even in Vietnam.

And if it comes to that, Gore seemed to be pretty sure that military personnel are predominantly Republicans.

I recall an article in the Wall St Journal maybe 5-10 years ago worrying about surveys showing that the Officer's Corps was becoming overwhelmingly Republican, whereas it traditionally had been independent. But what else could have happened back in the seventies when leftist protestors were trying to shut down ROTC. Democrats just weren't gonna be in ROTC in any numbers back then.

7 posted on 09/14/2002 2:51:01 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: LenS
However, I doubt Kirk is making his argument based on such knowledge. More likely, he's going off the common mythology of Vietnam ....

Yes, he's using this myhology to shore up his numbers - pretty soon they'll be pulling out the "dragging death", Byrd spot. They have no shame or morals.

8 posted on 09/14/2002 2:52:35 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: LenS
Read "Stolen Valor" by Burkett or visit www.stolenvalor.com The data show that blacks were not overrepresented among the wounded and dead. That and other Vietman veterans myths, manufactured by the Left and accepted as fact, are refuted in this book. It's a must read.
9 posted on 09/14/2002 2:54:22 AM PDT by LeftyStomper
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Bump!
10 posted on 09/14/2002 3:01:43 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
No kidding - I had to read the article twice just to be sure it was saying what it was. His statements on this issue show him to be so far out of touch that there is no way in Hell he should go to the US Senate. After all, he'd be in company just like himself in that chamber - out of touch with reality. Isn't there some way we can require the members of the Senate to take some form of civics and/or IQ test? Or just a generic lie detector test on ethics would be a good start. We need to return the Senate to where that chamber's members are chosen by the state representatives, not this system where it is the de facto House of Lords. These idiots do not represent their states in any way shape or form.
11 posted on 09/14/2002 3:09:40 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: 11B3
Isn't there some way we can require the members of the Senate to take some form of civics and/or IQ test?
Sure, toss out 51, make that 52, Senators.

12 posted on 09/14/2002 3:13:18 AM PDT by Monty22
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To: 11B3
Isn't there some way we can require the members of the Senate to take some form of civics and/or IQ test?
Sure, toss out 51, make that 52, Senators.
13 posted on 09/14/2002 3:13:32 AM PDT by Monty22
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
pretty soon they'll be pulling out the "dragging death", Byrd spot. They have no shame or morals.

You are so right. I've seen some comment that Kirk id a "good guy" or some such. Total misconception. He is more liberal than Slick Willie or Hitlery. When it comes to casting votes, you would not be able to distinguish his record from Cynthia McKinney's.

14 posted on 09/14/2002 3:16:18 AM PDT by San Jacinto
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To: Monty22
To be honest, I'd like to see almost 100 of them out of work. Time for a new start, with people in those seats that have something better to do in life - kinda like when the nation was founded.

On a slightly different note, I've got a question for anyone in here. Why is it that lawyers - who are essentially members of the judiciary (by definition once they pass the Bar exam) - aren't exempted from the legislative branch of the government? This has lead to the legislative branch becoming overtaken by the judicial branch. Checks and balances, anyone?

15 posted on 09/14/2002 3:19:11 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
From Democratic(not)Underground.

"Ask Auntie Pinko
December 6, 2001

Printer-friendly version of this article Tell a friend about this article Discuss this article


Dear Auntie Pinko,

Why is the entire military right wing? I am outnumbered here 10-1. A conservative comrade of mine made a good point, "If the liberal mindset wants to change the military, why don't they join it?"

A Liberal Military Guy
Pittburgh, PA

(Leisler.
Latest I read, and it was a few years old is the ration is now 23 to 1, consevative /liberal. (96% consevative) And growing.)

16 posted on 09/14/2002 4:13:03 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Him questioning my patriotism, I'm insulted by that," he said.

Translation; Since I am black, I can play the race card any damn well time I choose.

17 posted on 09/14/2002 4:21:26 AM PDT by johnny7
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Look who would be doing the fighting," he said following a joint rally with Tony Sanchez, the Democratic candidate for governor. "They're disproportionately ethnic, they're disproportionately minority."

Yes Ron, and sharks still swim the ocean routes of slave ships looking for a meal! What an @ss!

Oh how I wish I was back in Texas just so I could cast a vote for Cornyn. He's really a good guy.

18 posted on 09/14/2002 4:45:11 AM PDT by unbiasedtruth
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

19 posted on 09/14/2002 4:46:23 AM PDT by mhking
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To: San Jacinto
It needs to be shouted from the mountaintop that Ron Kirk was schooled at the knee of Ma Richards. I can't recall if he was Secretary of State for her, but make no mistake about it, he is as liberal as any Austin Democrat.

I'm still waiting for Cornyn's campaign to start asking questions about the $500K his wife made as a director for one of Tom Hicks' companies. Kirk's city manager (John Ware) started his own company with funding from Hicks within weeks of the vote approving the new arena.

Public servant, my ass! Kirk had the key to the City of Dallas ATM, and used it for his benefit. Cha-ching!

20 posted on 09/14/2002 4:46:29 AM PDT by Night Hides Not
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