Classics and War

Imprimis, Hillsdale College | February, 2002 | Victor Davis Hanson

[Noumenon]

Another lesson for our 15 year old twins. No one teaches these things in high school. But we do.

[Quix]

GREAT. THANKS. FOR FILES

[madison46]

VDH is a great writer and old fashioned American.

[ppaul]

Classical

BUMP!

[ppaul]

FYI

[Noumenon]

Yeah - VDH's writing is a model of clarity, and that makes it easy to convey his ideas to our kids. Here's another short, but powerful lesson from this text:

If our students and professors today would study the Classics, they might rediscover the origins of their culture -- and in doing so learn that we are not even remotely akin to the Taliban or the Saudis, but are in fact profoundly different in the manner we craft our government, treat our women, earn our living, and set the parameters of our religion.

But they won't study the classics - and they can't admit that our civilization is and arguably more humane, free, prosperous, advanced and truly more worthy one than that of the hellish medieval culture of the Islamic states. They can't tell the truth about the Islamic states - despotisms, all. They can't admit that because they have one thing in common with the Islamic medievalists: they despise this country and everything for which it stands, and they are filled with hate for people like you and me - and they wish to destroy us.

[RLK]

will always attack us for what we are, rather than
what we have done,

[jonjayray]

Does anyone have Prof Hanson's email address?
I would like to email him my congratulations on his integrity.
John Ray

[WaterDragon]

I went to abebooks.com, where you can find lots of used books and books out of print, and got several copies of some of the classics written for chldren at the beginning of the last century. These little books are simply excellent, telling the stories of the Iliad and the Odyssey. The younger children in my family, ages 4 and 5 and on up, really love the stories. Well, actually, the little books are being enjoyed by older kids and adults as well.

[cornelis]

He's at Fresno

[onedoug]

God Bless the American cowboy! Perhaps the noblest of God's spirit thus far by humanity advanced.

[Noumenon]

VDH bump

[dyed_in_the_wool]

But the Greek City-States haven't had a war for years.
And, no, Cyprus doesn't count.

[Noumenon]

And, no, Cyprus doesn't count

Oh, darn.

[Polybius]

States, like people, the historian Thucydides tells us, can be envious -- and even rude and pushy. And if they can get away with things, they most surely will.

Thucydides gave the following version of the ultimatum that the Athenian Empire gave to the small island city-state of Melos demanding it’s unconditional surrender to the Athenian Empire even though Melos had taken the utmost care to be Politically Correct and offend no belligerent during the Peloponnesian War:

”We shall not trouble you with specious pretenses-either of how we have a right to our Empire because we overthrew the Persians or are now attacking you because of wrong you have done us – and make long speeches that would not be believed……In return, we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible…….Since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

The small, independent, idealistic, island city-state of Melos rejected the Athenian Empire’s ultimatum. The Athenians then promptly wiped Melos off the face of the Earth and the Melians simply ceased to exist.

Moral of the Story:
Idealistic, Kum-Bah-Yah, give-Peace-a-chance Liberals don't survive long in the Real World unless their society has a potent Army manned by un-Progressive, Politically Incorrect, war-mongering Conservatives to protect them.

[Polybius]

But the Greek City-States haven't had a war for years.

The key word is "States".

In ancient Greece, a city and the surrounding farmland originally constituted a sovereign State.

Now that the geo-political units have enlarged, Greece consitutes a single "State" just like the Athenian Empire included several formerly-independent City-States in one political unit.

The closest "States" neighboring Greece today include Macedonia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia where war is a way of life.

[x]

Plato despised the strong and wealthy secular democracy of Athens for putting Socrates to death. In some ways he prefered the closed society of Sparta. Thucydides chronicled the arrogance and failures of Athens.

[dyed_in_the_wool]

Apologies. I was trying to be somewhat facetious. It doesn't often work face to face, I don't know why I thought it might work on the web.
The one constant in Europe has been the instability where cultures, religions and continents collide. Even when it spreads to New York occasionally.

[Noumenon]

The lure of bad ideas is with us always - another foible of human nature and a facet of the human condition.

[Noumenon]

Excellent commentary - thanks for the reference.