[agrace]

And since God is outside of time, we may pray even after the subject of our prayers is dead. Not that they find repentence "now," but that they had found repentence "then," before they died.

I do understand the point you are trying to make but I don't believe it is a valid one, simply because of what I already stated. Despite the fact that God exists out of time and is not bound by its constraints, WE exist IN it and ARE bound by them. Our prayers are unproductive if the subject of them is already dead because WE are dealing with the past tense.

So is the dead person - and this is more important - his life is OVER, and his chance GONE. If we say "I pray that he found repentence before he died," then that is valid, but only in the realm of hoping, not for effecting change.

[SoothingDave]

Our prayers are unproductive if the subject of them is already dead because WE are dealing with the past tense.

To whom are we addressing the prayers? God is not bound to time. He can make our prayers efficacious, even if it is an efficacy that violates our experience with time. I hate to think that any prayer is unproductive.

So is the dead person - and this is more important - his life is OVER, and his chance GONE. If we say "I pray that he found repentence before he died," then that is valid, but only in the realm of hoping, not for effecting change.

Here we more or less agree. Thanks for the discussion.

SD