Cachelot responded:
That was what I said, no?
You called all anti-Zionist Jews self hating.
I don't consider the sects who believe that without the Messia there should be no Israel to be self hating. They are followinbg a tradition.
I do believe that the institutionalised teachings forced upon them by the Roman court Rabbis after the Bar Kochba revolt.
"2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?"
You're not paying attention. I said that if VDARE places a rabid racist in a position of prominence (which he has if half the articles linked on the front page are his, for example), they are leaning in that direction and places themselves as an excellent tool for people who are, undeniably, racists. But the main thing is that they are then definitely not "mainstream".
They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.
"Jews think of themselves as a race."
Some / many / most / Jews may do so. So what? That doesn't make it a fact :).
1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.
2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp
It seems to me that Jews are a race.
"At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?"
Bah. America always were mixed nuts, at least once the nuts started getting in. And if you'd want to reserve America for a "racial core", it would be the American Indians, wouldn't it? And as I said, Jews are not a race - a certain POV doesn't make that true. So America may be a cultural unit to a large degree, and Israel too. None of them are racial units, nor should you really want them to be.
American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.
The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.
If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble) and see what happens.)
Race doesn't define culture, but heritage does to a large degree. Importing people of different heritages is destroying our cultural unity.
So, let's experiment a little. If such a sect should side with Arafat and declare that yes, Israel should cease to exist and the Jews should accept whatever he wished to visit upon them, they would be "non-self-hating"? (I prefer the term antisemites, actually - it carries the correct associations, which is no doubt why the neonazis are quite keen to get rid of it).
They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.
Sorry. I meant mainstream in the sense of representing most Americans. Sam Francis is certainly not mainstream in that sense, and he seems to make up a great part of that site, and so the site is not representative for the views of most Americans. I can go on explaining this to the micro level, of course. It'll take time.
1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.
So the argument is bogus, and you admit it's bogus. Yet you still lean on it.
2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.
So many Jews share some genetic code. And that has what to do with race? Genetic code will tell you a few things about bloodlines - family type of stuff. A genetic marker doesn't necessarily signify a racial characteristic. Another bogus argument.
Now consider this: if I were to convert to Judaism, I would be a Jew. That single fact alone renders your whole "racial platform" null and void. There are things that are sort of special about the Jews as a people, but race doesn't enter into it.
A piece of advice for you: if you absolutely must debate racial questions, it behooves you to get a grip on what race is.
American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.
This is senseless and ridiculous.
The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.
And so is this.
If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble)
Where, exactly, did I mention Sephardim and Mizrahim? Seems you are running a parallel argument somewhere else, with someone else. Are you? And what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? There are Arabs in Israel. Not to mention Black Jews and Asian Jews ;).