Posted on 09/02/2002 10:16:14 AM PDT by Texaggie79
Three leading psychologists have provoked an outcry by claiming that the dance drug ecstasy may not be dangerous and that some of its ill-effects may be imaginary. The drug has been blamed for causing deaths and permanent brain damage, but the psychologists are strongly critical of animal and human studies into its effects, claiming that they are misleading and overestimate the harm ecstasy - scientifically known as MDMA - can cause. Other scientists insisted that those who took ecstasy were undoubtedly risking their health and their life. Two of the scientists challenging the established view are British and the third is American. Dr Jon Cole is a reader in addictive behaviour and Harry Sumnall is a postdoctoral researcher, both at Liverpool University. Professor Charles Grob is director of the division of child and adolescent psychiatry at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Centre in California. Writing in the magazine the Psychologist, published by the British Psychological Society, they claim that many of the studies since 1995 have been flawed. They also accuse researchers of bias. Ecstasy is said to affect cells in the brain which produce serotonin, the chemical known to influence mood. But the changes observed involved the degeneration of nerve fibres, which can be regrown, and not the cell bodies themselves, the psychologists say. They accuse other scientists of minimising the impact of data suggesting that ecstasy exposure had no long-term effects. Although numerous tests were run on volunteers, only positive results were reported in detail, they say. "This suggests that hypotheses concerning the long-term effects of ecstasy are not being uniformly substantiated and lends support to the idea that ecstasy is not causing long-term effects associated with the loss of serotonin," write the authors. The article is critical of the way studies involving young users have been conducted. They point out that many psychological problems start in adolescence anyway, ecstasy users invariably took other drugs as well, and some of the symptoms reported mirrored those caused by simply staying awake all night and dancing. Most of the young people in the studies were volunteers from universities which raised questions about how representative they were of the population, the article says. Most studies have failed to pinpoint ecstasy as the cause of problems, they say, and the animal studies were flawed and inconclusive. They suggested that the long-term effects of the drug might be "iatrogenic", which is defined by the New Webster's dictionary as "caused by the mannerisms or treatment of a physician, an imaginary illness of the patient brought about by the physician". Paul Betts, whose daughter, Leah, died after taking the drug in 1995, called the article "despicable". Three other ecstasy experts writing in the Psychologist dismissed the notion that symptoms of long-term ecstasy use were all in the mind. Dr Rodney Croft, a research fellow at the Swinburne University of Technology in Hawthorn, Australia, said: "There is strong evidence that ecstasy does cause impairment... although conclusions drawn from such evidence cannot be infallible, I believe the strength of this evidence makes 'danger' the most reasonable message for the researchers to be broadcasting." About two million ecstasy tablets are believed to be taken by clubbers in the UK every weekend. Deaths linked to the drug have risen in the past decade. Between 1993 and 1997, there were 72. In 2000, there were 27, although 19 had other drugs in their system. The exact cause of death cannot always be established, but where it has been, it was often dehydration.
There's tons of crap out there that is passed off as ecstasy. Something called PMA and also Special K. Ecstasy can go for as much as $30 a pill, I've heard of up to $50. These others are closer to $5 a pill, so people try to pass it off as ecstasy.
Typicallly ecstasy deaths are caused by these these substances. Raves sometimes have pill testing, so that people know what they are takeing.
I used to do acid in the late 80s, before the ecstasy thing started. I could tell the difference in certain types. Some had more stricnine than others, etc.
Strychnine in LSD is a myth. The government released a batch of LSD in the 1960s with strychnine to create a fear over the drug in the public (source: Acid Dreams), but why would a dealer put strychnine in the LSD?
If he wants to rip you off he can just sell you sugar cubes.
Some types probably had very little LSD actually in it. Knowing the nature of the drug scene, who knows what kind of weird crap is being passed off as ecstasy.
Yep.
That makes little sense. That mixture would be more expensive then MDMA.
‘Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened.’ (Matthew 11:28)
"Normal human life is burdensome. This is not so say that labor is a bad thing. It is not! It's a good thing. Yet, men and women everywhere do confess to being badly worn by the cares of this life. Added to the need for us to bend mind and muscle to earn daily bread, there are other things that complicate existence. Included are illness, injustice, natural disasters, and war with its carrion load of wounds and death."
"But there is a weariness of the spirit, which Jesus also has in view, in this passage. It was common in Judaism, to refer to the Law as a yoke; a metaphor for service (Lamentations 3:27; Jeremiah 2:20, 5:5). The Jewish religion in Jesus' day had become an instrument of oppression. Peter described the Law as "a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear" (Acts 15:10).
"Jesus offers relief from religious drudgery. He appeals to the common folk. "You know what your life is," he says. "You have been taught what you must do to please God, but you have not the wherewithal to do it. You are covered in cultic obligations** which-far from granting you consolation, and strengthening-are... crushing---you."
"Come to me. I will give you rest."
"May this, Christ's rest, be yours."
**Cultic indulgencences(bondage/drugs) too!
Uh. Special K is exactly the opposite of e. So its not like you can fool somebody into thinking they took ecstasy when it was K. There were couple of batches going around that were all DXM which had special K like effects on people, though.. Know your dealer.
Well...from several years ago (I don't do it anymore), I had some "ecstasy" that altered visual perception similar to LSD. But it otherwise felt like ecstasy.
As I pointed out on another thread, when I was in High School in the late eighties, the average student drank and smoked pot. Now, everyone is doing coke and extasy and oxycontin, and doing them much more than once a month. Currently (in Raleigh, NC), the rave party mentality/scene has slowly crept into most of the younger (20-something) bars. Everyone is rolling and rolling a lot.
Of course, I am no doctor, but what goes up must come down, whatever your drug of choice...
There IS a differance.
I would also suspect that ANYONE up all night dancing in a hot club is at risk of dehydration, on "x" or not.
I can sell you tylenol and call it ecstasy - that doesn't make it ecstasy, does it?
I would also suspect that ANYONE up all night dancing in a hot club is at risk of dehydration, on "x" or not.
Agreed.
Hey, that was total luck, I'm a horrible speller. I didn't even notice you mispelled it. :)
I thought the strychnine was what caused the jittery, tight neck and shoulder muscles. (After I left that scene, I didn't care to do much research on the chemical makeup of acid.) I assumed that strychnine was either a byproduct of the chemical process, or if the LSD was weak or mixed down, the added strychnine would give you more of a sensation that SOMEthing was happening.
I've heard this exact same thing from others before, and they attributed it to strychnine. I suspect those symptoms may be psychosematic, but I don't know.
I'm sure there is plenty of variation in different batches of illicit drugs, so who can say?
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