Two, actually. I didn't agree or disagree with the rest of them, because they didn't have anything to do with the issue. I recognized that you were only trying to change the subject because you know you can't squirm away from my challenge any other way.
And why would I do this? Because your attitude towards the police reflects how you feel about this matter.
My attitude toward the police doesn't change whether they violated state law or knowingly arrested innocent people. But, read my postings to this thread starting here if you want to really know my attitude. I'm concerned that some number of rookie police officers are going to end up being victims of this fiasco, as well.
The facts do not jibe with your assertion these 278 people were all completely innocent; their only crime being in the K-Mart parking lot.
Produce one posting where I said that all 278 people are completely innocent. What I have asked repeatedly is how all 278 people can been guilty of criminal trespass or any other crime under these circumstances, as you have asserted here:
Me: But, the tactics of the Houston police committed several violations of Texas law.
You: The only people who did that were those arrested.
As you can see, you have claimed that every person arrested is guilty. I challenged you to admit you were wrong, if that turns out to be untrue. But, I never claimed that every person arrested was innocent and have actually posted several comments saying exactly the opposite. Again, you are either mapping your opinions onto me or are confusing me with someone else.
(By the way, since you seem to be a stickler for updates, here is the latest, in case you have not read it already.)
Already posted here. There's quite a bit of follow-up discussion, including the potential consequences of the allegations that some officers used unnecessary threats of deadly force during the raid. If it's true, things could get really ugly.
The only problem with this is, I have to agree to it. And I don't. Why? Because I do not have to.
No, you don't, if your credibility isn't of any value to you. But, I made this challenge when you wrote:
Look, I know you have no respect for law enforcement, and nothing would make you happier than to see another police department's hands further tied through the actions of wide-eyed, paranoid cop haters. But you are gonna have to be a man about this, accept the fact the facts are not in your favor, never have been and never will be, and build a bridge and get over it.
If you can't take more of the same dished back in your face, then you shouldn't be making allegations and personal attacks that you can't substantiate.
And if "being a man" means agreeing with you, well, I have lived this long without caring about your definition of a man, why should I start caring now?
As you can see in the parts of your posting I highlighted above, it was your criteria that I have to be a man about this, accept the fact the facts are not in your favor. I'm simply holding you to your own standard. If that makes you uncomfortable, then you should be looking in the mirror.
But to do so, you don't have to agree with me. All you have to do promise you will admit that you were wrong in claiming that the Houston Police did not commit any violations of policy or violations of law, and that every person arrested in that raid was guilty of some crime -- but only if the internal affairs, the criminal courts and civil courts do not agree with you. Those were my conditions and the challenge still stands.
Wrong again. The only thing I realize is what is going to happen as a direct result of this: These groups who choose to hang out on private property and engage in criminal behavior will only get worse, because the little punks and completely irresponsible morons whom said groups are comprised of know from this point on, nothing will happen to them.
I don't suppose that it occurred to you that the Houston police could go back to the same community policing methods that have been used for decades: dispersing the crowds, arresting those observed to commit crimes, handing out tickets for loitering to those that are encountered a second time, and arresting those that already have a ticket for loitering.
And the Houston police won't attempt illegal mass arrests again. They'll secure explicit complaints from business owners, and the owners won't agree to anything that gives the police a pretext to arrest all of their customers.
And, it should be also clear I just don't care what they, you, or anyone else thinks of me. You want to flame me because neither I, nor the facts, agree with you? Get over it! I have.
What I think of you, or whether you agree with me is of no concern to me. I'm challenging you because I believe the facts (and the law) don't agree with you, just as you made the challenge to me.
I've asked you to back up that challenge with a promise that you would admit your mistake if your allegations turned out to be wrong, and in exchange I've promised to do the same. But, so far all you have done is dodge my challenge, which is a sure sign that you really don't believe your claim that the Houston police did nothing wrong and that all the people arrested were guilty -- but are unwilling to admit it.
Given how things are unraveling more every day, I can understand why you don't believe it any longer, if you ever did. What I don't understand is why a person that is so hung up on law-and-order is not honest enough to admit they might have made a mistake.